Posted on 05/26/2007 7:52:33 AM PDT by Moseley
[snip] If Mr. Paul intends to stay in the race or even maintain his credibility, he needs to dissociate himself quickly from irresponsible accusations that the government is guilty of 3,000 counts of mass murder. Not only are such ideas offensive, but they are being used around the world to bash America and organize terrorist cells against us. American lives are endangered by such irresponsible propaganda.
For those who have not gone slumming on the Internet, the September 11 conspiracy theorists say no airplanes hit the Pentagon or the World Trade Center, even though hundreds of thousands of eyes watched the planes hit live, in person. They refuse to accept Osama bin Laden's proud claims of responsibility for September 11, instead "outing" bin Laden as a paid CIA agent. They claim that 30 tons of burning jet fuel could not melt steel, even though steel's strength is reduced at 1,000 degrees Celsius and melting is irrelevant. More than a dozen steel buildings have failed from fire alone. Last month, a burning fuel truck caused the steel in a San Francisco highway overpass to melt and fail. These people are not interested in answers or truth, but only in bashing America with falsehoods.
It's the same old story. When liberals thought "maverick" John McCain was useful for undermining President Bush and Republicans, he was the darling of the news media and liberals pretending to be Republican voters. Now that Mr. McCain is supporting Mr. Bush's position on the dominant issue of the day, the mainstream news media has shunned Mr. McCain like an old mistress once the affair is over.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
“My point is that for Ron Paul to avoid being sucked under the waves, he needs to clarify his remarks so as to leave no doubt that he has nothing in common with those who wear tin foil hats and claim that tens of thousands of people have all kept silent about a scheme to (allegedly) murder 3,000 of their former citizens”
Kind of difficult for LRonPaul to do that. He’s listed as a contributer on LewRockewell’s website and Justin Raimondo’s Antiwar.com website. Both of those sites are overun with conspiracy theorists. In fact, Raimondo used to post all those 9/11 conspiracies (the jews did it, it was a cruise missile, etc.,) here on Free Republic until Jim Rob banned him. I just don’t see how Paul can credibly deny any linkage with the conspiracy theorists when he contributes to their websites.
That is the warning of Peak Oil - we may never run out of oil, or sources of energy, it will become ever more expensive, and thereby reduce our standard of living to that of a pre-oil existence.
We cannot go back there without an extreme loss of life and increase in human hardship. Anyone who ponders the situation realistically would realize this.
What we need is a breakthrough in energy generation. I recently came across a presentation by Dr. Robert Bussard of a device that may very well be a salvation. But engineering development of a proven device is going begging for funding. A sad commentary on the US DOE decision making.
There are so many conspiracy's to choose from 9/11 is merely one of them..Mark the date; hosepipe goes under ...
What's going on here? Why the enormous, almost panicky, overreaction to what is a rather simple point about U.S. foreign policy? Why the attempts to suppress, distort, and misrepresent? What are they so scared of?I get the feeling that LewRockwell.com and company think they are COMPLETELY innocent of being complicit in any of these actions....
Back to LewRockwell.com Home Page
ARE THEY?
I say NO.
If LewRockwell.com and company weren't writing their congressman (and I'll bet they weren't) they ARE complicit.
I don't take their carping after the fact lightly at all.
The 'claim' that they alone possess 20-20 hindsight with the license to point and assign blame to the past is a cowardly act ...
I just don't see how Paul can credibly deny any linkage with the conspiracy theorists when he contributes to their websites.It's as with the democrats; 'they' claim to support the troops but do not support the mission.
LRon Paul would seem to be supporting those with an alternative 'truther' view but he 'says', obviously for public consumption (self-survival motives kicking in), that he does not support their views.
Privately, he must support their views, therefore, he is aligned with the truthers.
“Ron Paul needs to separate himself from the kooks — “
Ah - link him to the kooks then demand he separate himself from them. It’s like saying “I aint saying you beat yer wife, but I reckon some folks is startin to say it...”
I liked this quote of Paul’s:
“Under no circumstances should the U.S. again go to war as the result of a resolution that comes from an unelected, foreign body, such as the United Nations.”
I tend to agree with this sentiment.
Too late.... I'm already nutz..
“I get the feeling that LewRockwell.com and company think they are COMPLETELY innocent of being complicit in any of these actions.”
You appear to have feelings as substitutes for thought.
“I don’t take their carping after the fact lightly at all.”
“The ‘claim’ that they alone possess 20-20 hindsight with the license to point and assign blame to the past is a cowardly act ...”
The criticism of the invasion policy from the paleo-conservatives was both before, during, and since the attempt to implement that policy was made, not at all a case of “20-20 hindsight”. You can run with such substitutes for argument, but you can’t hide, and you can call reference to history “cowardly”, but it beats thinking with your adrenaline system.
In the end, perhaps the paleos will be discredited by success in Iraq, by some reasonable measure. Then you will have something to complain about that doesn’t boil down to vague feelings. It appears that the administration is preparing to declare a victory and withdraw, with a reasonably stable coalition of anti-Al Qaida national groups in charge. They may end up slaughtering each other in a civil war or some other form of folly, but that is up to them, and not a proof of failure of the expedition to eliminate Saddam’s regime. After all, the good old USA did not manage to avoid a horrible mutual slaughter in a civil war, so we can hardly hold that against the Iraqis, can we?
In the meantime, we will be having to deal with our out-of-control entitlements system and the waves of immmigration it is incenting. Perhaps a little less foreign interventionism would be a good thing to consider while we get our own house in order.
You appear to have feelings as substitutes for thought.As I said: "I don't take their carping after the fact lightly at all."
Lew Rockwell et al are 2nd, no, 3rd rate thinkers, doers and actors in my book.
About as useful as Mensa members ...
I hear "Paleo this" and "Paleo that" from you guys; I see this as an excuse to be ineffective, to remain ineffectual, allowing you to become mental m*sturbators ('Mensa members') and one step away from being Alex Jones believers (he, too, says he is a libertarian), constantly trying to re-work the political calculus of events done and over with and now in the past in order to plot some 'new' direction; but you are unable to move forward effectively.
Some circles call this Analysis Paralysis. We have a few guys like that at work - constant worry-warts that can't effective act/move/operate in real time; they have to dwell in the past.
“Under no circumstances should the U.S. again go to war as the result of a resolution that comes from an unelected, foreign body, such as the United Nations.”
‘I tend to agree with this sentiment.’
Yes, that is a nice sentiment. It has been inoperative since the “Korean police action” of 1950 (still ‘policed’ by tens of thousands of US troops, 67 years later), and shows no sign, so far, of being more than a sentiment.
The current political class considers the Constitution a dead letter, formally left in place in order to avoid scaring the peasants, but not to be taken seriously, when “serious issues” must be addressed to relieve the latest “crisis” (generally created by their past depredations and flouting of the Constitutional constraints on their legitimate activities).
It will take a new generation of educated and committed people to reverse this condition. Better to invest in building that next generation than in moping over what has been lost. If nothing else, help home schooling groups in your area get the information they need to help their children be part of that informed next generation, and to circumvent the apparatus of state orthodoxy that reigns in “higher education” while acquiring whatever formal credentials they will need to be active players in the future.
It has taken several generations to get into this mess,
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm
so we shouldn’t be surprised if it takes a generation or two to extricate ourselves from it. Having confidence in a providential Ruler is a pre-requisite for participation in this great adventure. Without that, we will always be dogged by the delusion that it’s “completely up to us”. That’s how the current mess emerged, and it will take some hard lessons for those who are deluded by it to be shaken loose of their delusions.
Most of these will never turn around, (e.g., the pattern foretold in Rev 9:20-21, as well as the entire book of Judges), and will only be overcome by replacement. That’s why there is hope in new generations. The deluded and disappearing devotees of the present age are erasing themselves from the picture by discounting the value of heirs, whom they have made victims of their pursuit of the comfortable life, the “Roe v Wade” effect. An ironic way for Psalm 1 to be vindicated! The ideas and visions of those who raise six or a dozen kids will inherit the earth. Those who have none, or have devoted most of the children they might have had to the Moloch of convenience, will be like the chaff blown away in the wind.
Of course, if the “economic conservatives” have their way, kick the Christian conservatives to the curb, and seal an alliance with the warfare-welfare statists and promoters of perverted childless household forms, the same end will occur, but with the Muslims inheriting, since they also understand the importance of heirs, and how to manipulate the self-refuting ingredients of this “multi-cultural” ideology which is being sold through the state school systems.
It should be an interesting century.
“Lew Rockwell et al are 2nd, no, 3rd rate thinkers, doers and actors in my book.”
“About as useful as Mensa members ... “
You might be right. I belonged to Mensa once, for a few months, and I think I know what you mean.
“I see this as an excuse to be ineffective”
Can be. Needn’t be. There are various approaches to effectiveness. Enjoy yours. For mine, see post #72.
The blurry vision, and misguided passions, of political zealots seem pertinent enough to this thread. Paul is certainly no Socrates or “philosopher king” but he has a better perception of the limits of his own political vision than either his avid supporters, or frantic detractors.
In that we can find agreement.
This is among the SILLY tactics of spin that go around.
When your favorite football team in the superbowl sees an opening in the other team’s ranks, and rushes for the end zone, is this a “panicky reaction?’ Or is that called WINNING?
When Ron Paul’s opponents see an opportunity to “put a fork in him” once and for all, THEY ARE REACTING WITH GLEE, not panic. The energy and excitement about the issue is caused by the chance to engage in a three-twirl, fly-through-the-air, ball never touches the rim SLAM DUNK with thousands of fans cheering. The excitement is not panic BUT THE THRILL OF VICTORY. Ron Paul’s political competition sees a chance to knock one more person out of the race and get the credit as a political victor and lots of free press. They are dribbling Paul’s head down the basketball court for the lay-up.
It is incredibly dishonest (and mainly people lying to themselves) to think that when Ron Paul says “Here is a knife, would you please stab me in the back with it?” that somehow the gleeful reacton of the political world is evidence that he is right.
It is truly the mark of the irrational conspiracy theorist that LOSING means WINNING, and evidence that they are WRONG becomes evidence that they are right.
My original post — although brief and edited even shorter for space — did say that it was NOT Ron Paul, but the 9/11 Kooks who are making the connection between Ron Paul and government conspiracies to murder 3,000 of its own citizens.
While I don’t know what Ron Paul has said on the Alex Jones show (Alex Jones is still pushing the commies want to put flouride in our water to control our minds nonsense), I strongly suspect that one does not go on Alex Jones multiple times without saying what Jones wants to hear.
HOWEVER, the 9/11 Truthers (they are the (9/11 Falsifiers, actually) are 90% convinced that Ron Paul is one of them, and are eagerly jumping up and down for Ron Paul. While those who wish Ron Paul ill surely would like to link him to 9/11 conspiracy theories, IT IS THE 9/11 TRUTHERS WHO ARE MOST ENERGETICALLY LINKING RON PAUL TO THEMSELVES.
I am getting their emails. It is worse than I said. The “Federal Reserve is a secret Jewish plot to control the world” crowd is embracing Ron Paul, the “income tax was never ratified and you don’t have to pay taxes” crowd is making Ron Paul their hero. The list of conspiracy nuts who are carrying Ron Paul around on their shoulders is longer than you think.
I said that Ron Paul needs to distance himself from 9/11 conspiracies NOT because of one chance remark, BUT BECAUSE THE 9/11 CONSPIRACY PEDDLERS ARE LINKING THEMSELVES TO RON PAUL very loudly, consistently, and strongly.
The 9/11 Truthers think that Ron Paul has promised them an investigation into accusations that the U.S. government murdered 3,000 of its own citizens, and yet the 100,000 people who would have to be in on the conspiracy have not said one word about it.
Of course, this does underscore one of the dishonest tactics of the 9/11 Liars Club, er., 9/11 Truthers: The “investigation” that many politicians want to have is into the utter incompetence of the bureaucrats. The 9/11 conspiracy peddlers then CHANGE that in their minds and rhehtoric into an investigation of whether the U.S. government committed mass murder of 3,000 of its own citizens. However, the 9/11 Truthers think that if Ron Paul is elected — or even just given a platform — the lid is going to come off 9/11 (in their minds) and we are going to find out (in their claims) that Osama Bin Laden is a paid agent of the Mossad, Al Qaeda’s repeated claims of responsibility for 9/11 are fake, no airplanes flew into the WTC and Pentagon, etc., etc. Barbara Olson is living in Turkey spending (I think it was) Polish money or something like that.
It appears to me that irontank has adequately responded to you in post 58. To make the repudiation of the "truthers" a major thrust of his campaign would in no way satisfy his detractors. The detractors will continue with the smear unabated in my opinion.
Regards.
If the 9/11 Truthers are saying “Ron Paul is one of us,” and Ron Paul is saying nothing -— WORSE, seeming to agree that he is — then he has a problem. It appears that the 9/11 Truthers know something we don’t. And Paul is only appearing to endorse the connection.
Don't be schmucky.
“She’s definitely a lot prettier than Ron! She’s even prettier than Edwards.”
“She?” Uh, hate to disappoint ya. Try “It”.
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