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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: greyfoxx39

you sure have a cockeyed view of things.

I should feel bad because the Lord gives me Joy because it offends you, so i should offend the Lord to make you feel better?

Wow!:)


901 posted on 05/06/2007 5:10:16 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: tantiboh; greyfoxx39

Oops, sorry, lost the link somehow. It was from:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200702280002


902 posted on 05/06/2007 5:10:50 PM PDT by tantiboh
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To: Colofornian

“Okay, we all need repentance. But the Book of Mormon says that ya don’t get grace til you’ve done all you can do.”

“All we can do” includes repentance.

Look, let me be very clear: the LDS Church teaches that we are saved by GRACE, contingent on our repentance and earnest efforts to follow Christ. It’s as simple as that.

This record is written in the heart; nobody can tell if you meet this standard except the Lord. That’s why He is the judge.


903 posted on 05/06/2007 5:14:33 PM PDT by tantiboh
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To: colorcountry; greyfoxx39

“Only a Mormon would fail to see the difference.”

Because, evidently, only a Mormon doesn’t view it as a personal endorsement from God.

Why does it threaten you so when we are sincerely grateful that the Lord has blessed us with the degree of joy and happiness that comes through the fullness of His Gospel? Why do you deride that gratitude as some sort of superior attitude?

Frankly, it entirely mystifies me. We’re willing to share! There’s plenty to go around!


904 posted on 05/06/2007 5:19:29 PM PDT by tantiboh
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To: MEGoody
“Anyone who wouldn’t vote for someone just because they are a Mormon is a loon.
And let me point out, I am a member of the ‘religious right’.”

Agree MEGoody; as you, I am a member of the so called “religious right:”. I have seen statements inferring that it is primarily the religious right that is against Romney. However, I have yet to hear a single negative comment about him from my conservative friends and associates. I would like to see some facts on this and not just out of hand anecdotal statements....

905 posted on 05/06/2007 5:24:35 PM PDT by snoringbear (')
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*


906 posted on 05/06/2007 5:32:31 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: tantiboh; Colofornian; colorcountry
Here is an example of "All we can do" that I hope everyone can understand.

Give Him All That We Have

As my wife and I talked about her feeling of inadequacy and her feeling that she couldn't do it and that she couldn't make it, I had a hard time reaching her until finally I hit upon something that had happened in our family just a couple of months earlier. In our home it is now called the parable of the bicycle.

After I had come home from school one day, I was sitting in a chair reading the newspaper. My daughter Sarah, who was seven years old, came in and said, "Dad, can I have a bike? I'm the only kid on the block who doesn't have a bike."

Well, I didn't have enough money to buy her a bike, so I stalled her and said, "Sure, Sarah."

She said, "How? When?"

I said, "You save all your pennies, and pretty soon you'll have enough for a bike." And she went away.

A couple of weeks later as I was sitting in the same chair, I was aware of Sarah doing something for her mother and getting paid. She went into the other room and I heard "clink, clink." I asked, "Sarah, what are you doing?"

She came out and she had a little jar all cleaned up with a slit cut in the lid and a bunch of pennies in the bottom. She looked at me and said, "You promised me that if I saved all my pennies, pretty soon I'd have enough for a bike. And, Daddy, I've saved every single one of them."

She's my daughter, and I love her. My heart melted. She was doing everything in her power to follow my instructions. I hadn't actually lied to her. If she saved all of her pennies she would eventually have enough for a bike, but by then she would want a car. But her needs weren't being met. Because I love her, I said, "Let's go downtown and look at bikes."

We went to every store in Williamsport, Pennsylvania. Finally we found it--the perfect bicycle, the one she knew in the premortal existence. She got up on that bike; she was thrilled. She then saw the price tag, reached down, and turned it over. When she saw how much it cost, her face fell and she started to cry. She said, "Oh Dad, I'll never have enough for a bicycle."

So I said, "Sarah, how much do you have?"

She answered, "Sixty-one cents."

"I'll tell you what. You give me everything you've got and a hug and a kiss, and the bike is yours." Well, she's never been stupid. She gave me a hug and a kiss. She gave me the sixty-one cents. Then I had to drive home very slowly because she wouldn't get off the bike. She rode home on the sidewalk, and as I drove along slowly beside her it occurred to me that this was a parable for the Atonement of Christ.

We all want something desperately--it isn't a bicycle. We want the celestial kingdom. We want to be with our Father in Heaven. And no matter how hard we try, we come up short. At some point we realize, "I can't do this!" That was the point my wife had reached. It is at that point that the sweetness of the gospel covenant comes to our taste as the Savior proposes, "I'll tell you what. All right, you're not perfect. How much do you have? What can you do? Where are you now? Give me all you've got, and I'll pay the rest. Give me a hug and a kiss; enter into a personal relationship with me, and I will do what remains undone."

There is good news and bad news here. The bad news is that he still requires our best effort. We must try, we must work--we must do all that we can. But the good news is that having done all we can, it is enough--for now. Together we'll make progress in the eternities, and eventually we will become perfect--but in the meantime, we are perfect only in a partnership, in a covenant relationship with him. Only by tapping his perfection can we hope to qualify.

When I explained to Janet how it worked, finally I broke through and she understood. She bloomed. I remember her saying through her tears, "I've always believed he is the Son of God. I have always believed that he suffered and died for me. But now I know that he can save me from myself, from my sins, from my weakness, inadequacy, and lack of talent."

Oh, brothers and sisters, how many of us forget the words of 2 Nephi 2:8:

There is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah.

There is no other way. Many of us are trying to save ourselves, holding the Atonement of Jesus Christ at arm's distance and saying, "When I've done it, when I've perfected myself, when I've made myself worthy, then I'll be worthy of the Atonement. Then I will allow him in." We cannot do it. That's like saying, "When I am well, I'll take the medicine. I'll be worthy of it then." That's not how it was designed to work.

There is a hymn--it is one of my favorites--that says, "Dearly, dearly has he loved! And we must love him too, And trust in his redeeming blood, And try his works to do" ("There Is a Green Hill Far Away," Hymns, 1985, no. 194). I think one of the reasons why I love that hymn so much is because it expresses both sides of that covenant relationship. We must try his works to do with all that is in us. We must do all that we can, and having done all, then we must trust in his redeeming blood and in his ability to do for us what we cannot yet do.

Elder McConkie used to call this being in the gospel harness. When we are in the gospel harness, when we are pulling for the kingdom with our eyes on that goal, although we are not yet there, we can have confidence that just as that is our goal in life, so it will be our goal in eternity. Through the Atonement of Christ we can have hope of achieving and an expectation of receiving that goal.

I bear testimony to you that this is true. I have learned this lesson in my life. My family has learned this lesson in our collective life. I bear testimony that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he is the Savior of the World, that he is our individual Savior, if we will only enter into that glorious covenant relationship with him and give him all that we have. Whether it be sixty-one cents or a dollar and a half or two cents, hold nothing back, give it all, and then have faith and trust in his ability to do for us what we cannot yet accomplish, to make up what we yet lack of perfection.

I bear testimony of him. I love him. I love his gospel dearly, and I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
907 posted on 05/06/2007 5:36:54 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: tantiboh

That’s a really interesting article...several points I have made here are made in the Fox comments. Thanks


908 posted on 05/06/2007 6:07:01 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: tantiboh; colorcountry
Why does it threaten you so when we are sincerely grateful that the Lord has blessed us with the degree of joy and happiness that comes through the fullness of His Gospel? Why do you deride that gratitude as some sort of superior attitude?

I didn't mention threat. Did you Color?

909 posted on 05/06/2007 6:09:34 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: greyfoxx39

“You know, Coyote, the apologists just refuse to acknowledge that they are debating with those of us who have either “been there, done that” or have spent years dealing with mormons in their communities.
I sometimes think that some of these posts are written in a state of denial.”

I have lived in Vegas (Mormon country) for 27 years, and now have quite an accumulation of first hand experiences, most of which are just plain disquieting. I currently work for a Jack Mormon, who was bred straight but became so turned of by the disconnect required that he is now 100% atheist (I’m walking him back to agnostic, hopefully). He recently told me, unsolicited, that he would never do business with a Mormon.

So you are quite right about the denial, they spin everything into the accusation that we are bigots without ever answering the questions we raise. I relate my list of stories and encounters as straight as punch (y’all have heard many of them), but they are so bizarre that I am inevitably called a liar. Well here is what I know, one side or the other is composed of world class prevaricators (or charitably the disillusioned).

Now, if I was a world class liar of that order, you’d expect some of the rebuttals to have exposed me by now. But I call Mormons crystal gazers, and nothing comes back - chirp chirp. I ask them to have their church put a Cross on their steeple to show they are Christian, and the answer is chirp chirp. We post a picture of a three dollar bill with Joseph Smith’s signature on it, and we are accused of being agitators (while they avoid admitting their prophet was a charlatan). I ask whether Bishop Mitt Romney will have to explain that he plans on becoming God of a planet where he will have multiple wives and spirit children without number, and I’m called vindictive, for asking the type of question Mitt will have to answer for the next ten years (note, no one denies that’s what Mitt believes). I’ve even offered a thousand dollar bet to anyone who could prove I lied about my stories, but alas, chirp chirp.

I know what I know because I was forced to defend myself numerous times from Mormons - who themselves were at these junctures guilty of thievery, embezzlement, tax evasion (about to turn one in on that), a threat to beat me up for asking for the business books, etc. After a while, you’d have to be nuts not to have studied how they operate and how they encircle and divide out anyone they consider a threat to the hive.

Here’s a thought thread which will help explain why I don’t want a Mormon in the presidency. Harry Reid recruted one Dario Herrera to run for Congress here. Dario was at that time a County Commisioner taking bribes from Michael Galardi (and others) at Cheetah’s topless bar. Of course, Harry was successful in converting Dario to Mormonism, and even now supports Dario as he goes off to the penitentiary at the end of what is called the G-Sting scandal (google it). Mormons all over town knew about Darios corruption, and corruption higher up, and did Jack squat.

But ooops, the tightnit Mormon community is as pure as driven snow.

Been There, Done That, Many Times


910 posted on 05/06/2007 6:11:05 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: snoringbear; All

Let me be very clear. I will never vote for Romney in the primaries. It will take a lot and I don’t know if I can do it, but I may vote for him in the general election if he is the nominee. However, the democrat nominee will win that and my vote won’t matter.


911 posted on 05/06/2007 6:13:19 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: DelphiUser

DU’s homily for the day. When did you give that talk at sacrament meeting?


912 posted on 05/06/2007 6:15:22 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Fred sez "I'm not interested in being the tallest midget in the room.." RUN FRED RUN!)
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To: FastCoyote
Did you happen to see the Apologist's response to my noting that the Marriott family makes milions and millions from the porn they purposely pipe into their hotels? ... 'Hotel chains are run by corporations' LOL

I wonder how many of the 'board members' of Marriott are Not Mormons? Hypocrisy is such a telling trait don'tchaknow.

913 posted on 05/06/2007 6:49:29 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN

“I wonder how many of the ‘board members’ of Marriott are Not Mormons? Hypocrisy is such a telling trait don’tchaknow.”

Those brave Mormon Missionaries “saved” Vegas by taking over the casino back rooms. I guess we owe their Hypocrisy a lot here.


914 posted on 05/06/2007 6:56:01 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: greyfoxx39

Nope no threat. I tremble in fear.....for them.


915 posted on 05/06/2007 7:23:05 PM PDT by colorcountry (“It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true” ~Dallin H. Oaks)
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To: FastCoyote

It is exactly like that in Utah. There is something almost devious about some who use Mormonism for their own gain. It is rampant!

Romney may not be one of them, but I have seen underhanded business dealing even within the heirarchy. When the apostles and Prophet were buying forged documents and squirreling them away from the sight of members, it was a glaring symbol of deception.

Google “Mark Hoffman” and “salamander letter.” I hate to point it out but Mormonism is known in the West for deception and advantageous (to them) business practices, pyramid schemes, land speculation fraud, white collar crime, bankruptcy.

They aren’t better than us. They aren’t more special. They have a high price PR firm that has made the nation believe what they wish them to believe. Divorce rates are the same as the general population, anti-depressant use is greater, sex crimes, rape is higher in Utah.

They are just people, just like everyone else. They have problems just like everyone else.


916 posted on 05/06/2007 7:32:13 PM PDT by colorcountry (“It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true” ~Dallin H. Oaks)
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To: Saundra Duffy
Too many Mormons are secular or ignorant in their understanding...

Too many Jews are secular or ignorant in their understanding...

Too many Catholics are secular or ignorant in their understanding...

Too many Christians are secular or ignorant in their understanding...

et al

917 posted on 05/06/2007 7:40:32 PM PDT by Osage Orange (The old/liberal/socialist media is the most ruthless and destructive enemy of this country.)
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To: colorcountry; greyfoxx39

It would take exactly one, only one, shady deal that could be connected to Romney for Hillary to be the next President with a filibuster proof Senate majority. If there are any such deals in his past, you can darn well bet the clinton goon squad will find them/it.


918 posted on 05/06/2007 7:50:06 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: DelphiUser

Just to give credit where credit is due. Thank you for posting this speech by STEPHEN E. ROBINSON

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=7054

This is another teaching of Mormonism:

The Atonement: All for All,” Seventy Bruce Hafen quenched such high hopes when he commented on how some people “mistakenly think our Church is moving toward an understanding of the relationship between grace and works that draws on Protestant teachings.” Such “misconceptions,” he said, prompted him to address this topic in his conference message (Ensign magazine, May 2004, p.97). He then proceeded to warn LDS members that “If we must give all that we have, then our giving almost everything is not enough. If we almost keep the commandments, we almost receive the blessings.” (p.98, emphasis his).

Dr. Robert Millet regarding salvation: “The works and deeds of man, though insufficient of themselves for salvation, are necessary...Man cannot be saved by grace alone; as the Lord lives, he must keep the commandments; he must work the works of righteousness; he must work out his salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord” (pp.118-119 Grace Works, written by BYU professor Robert L. Millet.)
).


919 posted on 05/06/2007 7:56:34 PM PDT by colorcountry (“It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true” ~Dallin H. Oaks)
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To: MHGinTN
There may not be any “shady” deals. I think Romney has been groomed for the Presidency for many, many years.

I did work on the Olympic bid. The scandal was set-up and fabricated, the men who worked on the bid did nothing out of the ordinary Olympic bid. The bribes were done in exactly the same way they had taken place for decades and no one said a word. The “scandal” may have been orchestrated as a way to bring Romney on the scene as savior of the Olympics. The machinations of what goes on behind the facade of a Church in Salt Lake City would likely make your blood boil, but they will never see the light of day.....it has taken 150 years for the truth to leak out about Mountain Meadow Massacre. By then it will be too late.

The LDS Church is forking out millions to build a new shopping mall in downtown Salt Lake. This just isn't normal behavior for a Church - no matter who you are, and especially one that is extremely secretive about their investments, holdings and income. There is no accountability to the members. NONE!

The LDS Church owns media companies and holds stock in major media outlets like the LA Times and the NY Times. They own insurance companies, and brokerages. Mitt handles investments....Are they the Churches? I don't know. Someone with more ability than I to investigate would need to dig-in to find out.

920 posted on 05/06/2007 8:06:52 PM PDT by colorcountry (“It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true” ~Dallin H.)
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