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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: sevenbak
Do you think they feel the same way about Harry Reid? Because of Reid, this is the perfect time for Romney to run, it makes any attempt to throw Mormonism at Mitt backfire in their faces.

Quoting a friend: "The dems will gladly trade a Harry Reid for Orin Hatch and the White House and a filibuster-proof Senate."

Any attempt to throw mormonism at Mitt will play very well with their base. Their base won't see any difference between one man of faith, George Bush, and another, Mitt Romney.

401 posted on 05/05/2007 6:03:50 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I'm proud to be a FREDHEAD. Run Fred Run!)
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To: sevenbak; DelphiUser; FastCoyote; needlenose_neely; colorcountry; Pan_Yans Wife; Colofornian
but you can't possible fathom what thoughts about you are going through my mind. ;-)

Seven there were many admonitions on the other thread about personal attacks. Just a gentle reminder ;-)

402 posted on 05/05/2007 6:11:10 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I'm proud to be a FREDHEAD. Run Fred Run!)
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To: Colofornian; Saundra Duffy
) Finally, let me ask you, would you draw the line at letting anybody lead your group in prayer?

Saundra, just curious here. Are women allowed to offer the prayers over the sacrament in the LDS church yet? They weren't when I was a member, nor were they allowed to offer the opening or closing prayer in Sacrament meeting.

403 posted on 05/05/2007 6:14:54 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I'm proud to be a FREDHEAD. Run Fred Run!)
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To: sevenbak
If your belief is that the Father and the Son are one (not in unity but form and being), then why wouldn't the Father have that same Body that Jesus was resurrected with?

Again, you get hung up w/the Father HAVING to have a physical body. That is post Book of Mormon theology.

The body is not makes for divinity. A divine "substance" is not a body. In the OT, God would present Himself at times as a cloud. So now you're going to tell me you can't have divinity unless you have vapor & dust?

The book of Psalms talks about the "wings" of God. So now you're going to tell me you can't have the substance of divinity unless the divine bird is flapping?

Just because God has manifested Himself in various forms/expressions, doesn't reduce Him to the manifestation.

Just like just because the Son of God is also the son of Mary, you can't reduce him only to being the son of Mary. Jesus is the forever God-man. You're right in that He didn't shed the body post-death or post ascension. But just as He was suddenly with the disciples at one post-death appearance, implying He walked thru walls; as just as He flew through the air ascension-wise and will return the same way, He is not limited by time or space.

Col. 1:27 talks about "Christ IN you, the hope of glory." Is Christ in you, or not? Is the Christ who created you (Col. 1:16) and every being the same Christ who is in you?

404 posted on 05/05/2007 6:23:58 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: sevenbak
So do you really believe that all Churches that preach Christ all do it out of the love of Christ and that no one (besides us evil Mormons of course) does it to deceive men for money or other reasons?

Well, what does Paul say about ill motives for preaching the gospel? "It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes and I will continue to rejoice." (Phil. 1:15-18)

There's your answer.

405 posted on 05/05/2007 6:28:08 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: JRochelle
That is a damn lie!

No its not. I was Christian for 30 years and attended various denomonations. While one pulpit may not do it every Sunday I heard it every couple of months or so. So when you put together all the thousands of churches in America "Sunday after Sunday" is accurate.

406 posted on 05/05/2007 6:30:48 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Saundra Duffy

Bump for later...


407 posted on 05/05/2007 6:41:37 AM PDT by tubebender
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To: JRochelle

Its hard to believe you would attempt to dispute the
persecution of Mormons. Just look at the looneys here on FR
who go ballistic every time the word “Mormon” is uttered.


408 posted on 05/05/2007 6:42:14 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

How did I dispute persecution?


409 posted on 05/05/2007 6:46:54 AM PDT by JRochelle (Al Sharpton: Its hard out here for a race pimp.)
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To: sevenbak; Colofornian
Has he ever done anything in his political life that would warrant such a paranoid fear as you seem to have of him?

Has any Mormon in public office?

Ahemmmm....Arizonans remember Evan Meacham, impeached governor, 1988

No other political figure has had as much impact on Arizona’s reputation in the past 20 years as Meacham. A perennial candidate and anti-establishment conservative, Evan Meacham lasted 15 months as governor before he was impeached.

KAET TV

410 posted on 05/05/2007 6:48:05 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I'm proud to be a FREDHEAD. Run Fred Run!)
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To: JRochelle

Don’t go lawyer on me.


411 posted on 05/05/2007 6:48:23 AM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

Good grief. You make a charge and then can’t back it up.

I am not disputing that Mormons are and were mistreated.


412 posted on 05/05/2007 6:52:44 AM PDT by JRochelle (Al Sharpton: Its hard out here for a race pimp.)
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To: Colofornian; sevenbak; FastCoyote
Slapping "Jesus Christ" on to a building doesn't necessarily make it sourced in Him, as both Matt 24 and the LDS church both show.

In regards to a name making something Christian, is The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) twice as Christian because Christ is in the name twice?

413 posted on 05/05/2007 6:53:47 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I'm proud to be a FREDHEAD. Run Fred Run!)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

“Just look at the looneys here on FR
who go ballistic every time the word “Mormon” is uttered.”

Your so called “looneys who go ballistic” are in good part composed of former Mormons, or people like myself who have had extensive dealings with church members in high Mormon population areas. They may be looneys, or they may be canaries in the coal mine.

But if you think we are looneys, did you know Adam (of Adam and Eve fame) was also a God, and Eve was just one of his many wives?

[President Brigham Young’s Teaching

Here we have the name/titles of the three creation Gods. Except for Michael the identities of Eloheem and Jehovah are not spelled out. Brigham Young mentioned, “It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael . . .” (Journal of Discourses 1:51, 9 April 1852).

In this same discourse (as published) President Brigham Young said:

When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. . . . the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. . . . When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal” (Journal of Discourses 1:50, emphasis in original).

What we have are three creation Gods, Eloheim, Yahovah [spelled that way in the Endowment House records] and Michael. They are not the Father, Son and Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) but a different trinity. They are like a LDS priesthood presidency of three (Elder’s Quorum, High Priest Quorum, First Presidency, Mission Presidency, Temple Presidency). But there are now two trinities, the regular Father, Son and Holy Ghost and the creation Gods Eloheim, Yahovah (Jehovah) and Michael. Brigham Young taught that in order to create a world a man would have received his exaltation as a God. At a Special Conference held on 28 August 1852 he explained it as an important key to understanding:

After men have got their exaltations and their crowns—have become Gods, even the sons of God—are made Kings of kings and Lord of lords, they have the power then of propagating their species in spirit; and that is the first of their operations with regard to organizing a world. Power is then given to them to organize the elements, and then commence the organization of tabernacles. How can they do it? Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you” (Journal of Discourses 6:275).

Some individual journals mention the teachings of Brigham Young about Adam/Michael but not all church members believed in Adam being God or understood what he was talking about. Apostle Orson Pratt opposed the doctrine from 1852-1868. It is evident that if the interpretation of the creation Gods was taught in the Nauvoo Temple like Brigham Young was explaining then Pratt probably would have accepted it. But it appears to have first been publicly taught in April 1852.]

Of course, I will be called again a bigot for quoting Mormon doctrine. Yet I suspect a lot of people will be surprised to find that monotheistic “Christian Mormon’s” aren’t quite sure which God actually created Earth.


414 posted on 05/05/2007 7:01:20 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: George W. Bush

Your #400...excellent and concise post.


415 posted on 05/05/2007 7:01:55 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (I'm proud to be a FREDHEAD. Run Fred Run!)
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To: FastCoyote

You almost certainly hold personal beliefs that others would find equally bizarre and outrageous.


416 posted on 05/05/2007 7:03:36 AM PDT by JCEccles (“Politics ain’t beanbag” Finley Peter Dunne)
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To: Twink

I’ve said before that Huntsman would be a better Mormon governor to run than would be Romney. I’ll vote for Mitt if he is the nominee, but I’m not planning on supporting him in the primaries. (I probably won’t vote for Rudy if he is the nominee.)


417 posted on 05/05/2007 7:24:03 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: All
The fact remains that despite the gratuitous smears, insults, and expressions of loathing and contempt from many evangelicals concerning Mormons, Mormon Republicans would cheerfully and resolutely support any decent Christian evangelical candidate who was the Party's nominee.

That's because Mormons don't judge according to whether one attends an acceptable "church." They judge political nominees according to whether that nominee's life is lived in accordance with Christian principles, whether his walk matches his talk.

They're pretty good at such judgments, too. That's why they were and are George W. Bush's strongest supporters. Even today, their support for Bush remains unflagging even as evangelicals ditch Bush left and right as they chase after sexy modern idols such as Gore's global warming nonsense.

Of course, this dumbfounds many evangelicals who can't understand why let alone how members of such a wicked, evil cult could or would ever support a nominee for the express reason that that nominee strives to live Christian principles.

As for "weird beliefs," how about: transubstantiation, the notion of a triune God, and a literal six day creation period less than 5000 years ago? Most Mormons find these beliefs odd, but they would never use them as a basis for rejecting an otherwise decent Catholic or evangelical candidate for president.

So tell me again: between evangelicals and Mormons generally, who judges superficially and hypocritically and who judges righteous judgment?

418 posted on 05/05/2007 7:28:47 AM PDT by JCEccles (“Politics ain’t beanbag” Finley Peter Dunne)
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To: sevenbak
I spend a lot of time at the Utah Capital during the legislative session. I can't tell you how many times I have seen various denominational leaders and congregants lead those meetings in prayer. It is with reverence and respect that they are all treated.

Last time I check the Utah Capital was not a THEOCRACY. In fact it IS the government of all those various demomination and not just the Mormons......ISN'T IT?

But a Christian organization is not a governmental body. They may exclude whomever they want, can't they?

AND I worked for a Salt Lake Company that held weekly sales meeting that opened with prayer. It was owned by LDS men, and only LDS members were asked to pray. They owned the company - and so it was their right. It is not a govenmental right, and so this is precisely a reason to fear Romney. We see clearly an attitude confusing State Governement with ecclisiastical groups. THAT should never happen IMO.

419 posted on 05/05/2007 7:31:54 AM PDT by colorcountry (An Honest Man will change his thoughts to match the truth and a Dishonest Man will change the truth)
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To: JCEccles

“You almost certainly hold personal beliefs that others would find equally bizarre and outrageous.”

No I don’t - unless you are referring to people in the psyche ward. I believe 2 + 2 = 4, no doubt that is bizarre and outrageous to nut jobs. I don’t believe I am a God (or in any danger of becoming one), though I can find thousands in the nut wards who do believe they are God. I don’t believe I can gaze into a rock crystal and create a new religion (though perhaps if I did, only then would you consider me sane [talkin’ bout spin!]).

But, let’s talk about my bigotry (of which I am often accused), versus the saintliness of our Mormon apologists:

****************************
Joseph Fielding Smith wrote the following:

“There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantage. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less.... There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits.”

Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.1, pages 66-67
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Joseph Smith stated the following:

“For instance, the descendants of Cain cannot cast off their skin of blackness, at once, and immediately, although every soul of them should repent, obey the Gospel, and do right from this day forward. . . . Cain and his posterity must wear the mark, which God put upon them; and his white friends may wash the race of Cain with fuller’s soap every day, they cannot wash away God’s mark; The Lamanites, through transgression, became a loathsome, ignorant and filthy people, and were cursed with a skin of darkness … yet, they have the promise, if they will believe, and work righteousness, that not many generations shall pass away before they shall become a white and delightsome people; but it will take some time to accomplish this at best”

Source: The Latter-Day Saints Millennial Star, vol. 14, p. 418
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Remember, these are the Prophets of Mormonism speaking, the supposedly had a direct connection with the Holy Spirit. I wonder how Bishop Mitt is going to explain that away with a “revelation” that only came in 1978.


420 posted on 05/05/2007 7:31:54 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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