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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: Bonaparte
Let's see. An individual who has no cumpunction of assailing someone else's faith and yet hides behind anonymity. Personal information? You can't tell me what church you go to? I've already shown there is a paucity of logic or fact. Are you scared to tell me what church you go to? My goodness, there is a computer and I am sure many miles between us. What have you to fear? I will even give a promise not to assail anyone's religion who cares to declare it to me. I have no problem with anyone's religion. I only have a problem with those who misrepresent mine and throw barbs and hide.
2,581 posted on 05/15/2007 7:38:24 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Bonaparte

Which question have I failed to answer?


2,582 posted on 05/15/2007 7:42:09 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: DanielLongo
LOLOL!

Ok, DL, let's see you set the example for us all.

I need a complete personal background file on you, pronto! Everything! Including, but not limited to, your full income tax and business statements for the past 15 years, your military record, your personal health history with photocopies of all your medical records (please include those of your immediate relatives, as well, so I can assess your risk of genetically inherited disease), your criminal history (including traffic citations), any history of litigation in which you werre the defendant, any history of bankruptcy, repossession, or defaults on loans. Please include all social security numbers, account numbers, etc. and scan photocopies to us so we can verify that the information is correct, ok? And that's just for starters!

I know you don't approve of folks "hiding behind anonymity," so I expect you'll comply with this demand without delay. I thank you in advance for your cooperation.

2,583 posted on 05/15/2007 7:49:20 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: DanielLongo
"Joseph Smith did perform miracles and they are recorded."

Anyone who could marry more than 33 wives sure was a miracle worker. Eleven of Smith's wives were between ages 14 and 20, nine were in their 20s, eight were in Smith's own peer group of 31 to 40, two were in their 40s and three in their 50s. And not only was he sleeping with younguns, a lot of the women were still married to others. It truly is a miracle he didn't die of an STD.

"He died in Illinois. Brigham Young and the other apostles led the people to Utah."

That was pretty soon after his $3 Kirtland bank scam. Brigham Young was surely inspired, he married 11 of Joseph's wives. A regular Sodom and Gomoroh

"Latter-Day Saints do have more light and knowledge because we continue to receive revelation from the Lord and we are required to live by it."

Why, with all that revealed light and knowledge, why not skip straight to getting your own planet instead of hanging around with us dumb Christians who are just going to hell anyway if we don't bow to Joseph Smith.

I receive revelations myself every day, they are filled with (light and knowledge) squared, so I'm more full of it than anyone. And you know I'm telling the truth because I've never told a lie.

"However, God is no respecter of persons and all are beloved sons and daughters to Him."

Except those Christians and Jews who Joseph Smith said were abominations. Unless he was wrong about that, cause he seems to have been wrong a whole bunch.

"The hieroglyphics were produced and attested to by authorities in the field."

No they weren't, I posted a big link to the Mormon curator who tried to get them authenticated but gave up when four out of four real translators told him Joseph Smith's translations were a crock.

"I've seen the websites with the supposed facsimile that is supposed to be the original from which Joseph Smith referenced. If that is all you know on the subject then you are woefully uninformed. What did the detractors use to come up with their translation?"

Um, they used the same funeral wrappings Joseph Smith used. Of course, there are now literally thousands of funeral casks around, and not one of them has the same book of Abraham wrappings that Joseph Smith sucked out of thin air.

"2. He never lost the gold plates and there were many witnesses to them as you will find in the preface to the Book of Mormon. Those who became disaffected never recanted their witness of the plates."

So, where are they now? They must be worth billions. I guess they got made into the graven images you have on top your Temples.

"3.He did not lose a "first translation of the Book of Mormon". The manuscript for the first book within that set of scriptures, the "Book of Lehi" was taken and never returned."

That would be called "losing it" in anything other than Mormon speak. Mormon speak let's you always be right, unless you are wrong, in which case there's always a new revelation to make up for the mess you've created.

"4.Do you know what Moses and the Priests of Arron called the Urim and Thummim? That's in the Old Testament, if you've never read it."

I sure do know what they are, cause I have them right here. And I'm using them to translate the hieroglyphics I found wrapped around the imported computer parts I just got from Taiwan. They say "Joseph Smith not able translate bean soup".

I was going to use my secret decoder ring to translate my secret hieroglyphics, but the plastic broke and I lost it - oooops, I mean it was taken from me, the Prophet Fast Coyote never loses any sacred paraphenalia (unless the cops are headed my way, in which case it was a friend's).

"7.He did not run a bank in Kirtland and if you were familiar at all with U.S. history you would know that there was a national bank failure at the time, which happened to affect Kirtland. Kirtland was did not start it, was not the center of it, and certainly was insignificant as to the national scope of the crisis."

Then you must feel pretty stupid seeing as how Joseph Smith signed a $3 bill from Kirtland bank.

"And yes, Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. Gordon B. Hinkley is the living prophet at this moment. Revelation has not ceased, nor the ministering of angels, nor Christ's intimate dealings and direction with His Apostles. The heavens are not shut and yes, the Book of Mormon is the word of God and testifies that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten of the Father in the flesh."

With all those saintly prophets running around, it's pretty hard to say that I couldn't just as well be a prophet. I think the BOM has been superceded by the Book of Zelph, look it up, it's highly enlightening.

2,584 posted on 05/15/2007 8:04:58 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: Bonaparte

Ok, let see...
Born in Ohio, grew up in Florida, have two brothers (that’s probably all you want to know there) Oh, yes, my real name is Daniel Longo. I earned over 90K and filed under sub chapter S. The name of my business is Pennant. I’m 33 years old, so yeah I guess my tax returns go back to my Pizza Hutt days. No military record, my oldest brother served as a submariner in the Navy, the brother just older than I just finished his second tour in Iraq. He is an Apache pilot with the 101st. I wanted to be a Navy pilot and did the whole NJROTC thing, but my eyesight(which I was not aware of) prevented me from entering pilot training. It was the only thing I wanted to do, so I moved on. Still love planes with a passion. Still too poor to own my own, but I plan to one day. My Dad was inlisted during Vietnam but served as attache to some Generals in Texas. My grandmother was among the first nurses to go to the Pacific during WWII in the New Hebrides. My grandfather also served in the Pacific durring the war. No diseases. I’ve had two speeding tickets, one just a year ago. I served two hours in the pokey and posted bail for not having insurance and driving a motorcyle when I was 19 in Roswell, Georgia. No bankruptcies, repossessions, or defaults. I have an excellent credit rating and honor all my debts official or otherwise. I’ll give you the middle two 88 :) My wife handles all of our finances. I just make the money, so I honestly don’t know any account numbers.What’s next?


2,585 posted on 05/15/2007 8:08:10 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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Well with all that unnecessary personal data, this ol' heretical Episcopalian is going for the popcorn ...
2,586 posted on 05/15/2007 8:15:00 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: DanielLongo

“FastCoyote, that was a sincere question. What church do you go to? What is the denomination?”

I am the God/Prophet FastCoyote, it is my own church. I believe in multiple wives, banking pyramid schemes, looking through pretty glass to translate mystic sayings. Moreover, I have Golden Tablets, right here, right now, to attest to the truth of what I’m saying. A lot of people have seen these tablets, really they have, that’s the ticket.

I, like Joseph Smith, have had my ass kicked many times for my squirrely thinking habits and taste for other men’s wives, proving that I am a true prophet. Join my church, I pray of you, but don’t forget to send your tithe along with your application, filled out with your SS# and a major credit card.

If you won’t accept my evidence that Joseph Smith was a fraud, then I won’t accept any evidence that calls into question my Godliness.


2,587 posted on 05/15/2007 8:15:04 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote
Ah, so that's where the expression came from, ie. "phony as a three-dollar bill" -- the Bank of Kirtland!

And who permitted you to gaze upon the Book of Zelph? To make pronouncements of any kind about its contents? It is forbidden to all but the initiated. Now you must be cleansed, purged, mind-wiped and assimilated. As Dan Akroyd would say, "The Orbs of Meepzorp Await!" The Mother Ship will call for you at midnight. Be there or be square!

2,588 posted on 05/15/2007 8:15:19 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: DanielLongo

“So the righteous will sit in God’s throne. Is that even more arrogant? Have you read the scriptures?”

It is incredibly arrogant to believe you will be equal to God. That’s why Mormons cannot be trusted in positions of power (e.g. Harry Reid). You knever know when they are going to flip and believe they got their planet early.


2,589 posted on 05/15/2007 8:18:18 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: Utah Girl; Truth-Miner

Well, are you gals watching the Utah Jazz Golden State game?


2,590 posted on 05/15/2007 8:23:41 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: DanielLongo
Mr Longo:

It has come to my attention that you have failed to fully comply with our Full Disclosure requirement. Vital information has not been included on your Full Disclosure Form Part A, nor has this office received the necessary documentation from you.

If you cannot locate this information or do not understand these requirements, Mrs. Longo will be happy to assist you in these matters.

Please review the items required in our Full Disclosure letter and complete the blank items by the deadline in our original letter.

Failure to do so, will result in referral to the enforcement section of our Administrative Review office.

Thankyou for your timely attention to this matter.

2,591 posted on 05/15/2007 8:24:19 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: FastCoyote

Harry Reid is a MINO (Mormon in Name Only). It’s so embarrassing.


2,592 posted on 05/15/2007 8:27:54 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy ( Mitt has the best hair!)
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To: Bonaparte
"And who permitted you to gaze upon the Book of Zelph? To make pronouncements of any kind about its contents? It is forbidden to all but the initiated. Now you must be cleansed, purged, mind-wiped and assimilated."

I have taken the test of the dice, and it spoke true to me:)

"As Dan Akroyd would say, "The Orbs of Meepzorp Await!" The Mother Ship will call for you at midnight. Be there or be square!

The group that ended as "Heaven's Gate" was known by various names over the twenty-two years of its existence. In the early years, at least, the group did not give itself a name. Hence, several of its names were given to it by outsiders. Sociologist Robert Balch, who studied the group during its early life, referred to them as the "Bo and Peep UFO Cult." Picking up on a key teaching of the group, news reporters often referred to the group as HIM ("human individual metamorphosis"). Members referred to themselves simply as "the group," and their leaders as "The Two." In a newspaper advertisement taken out by the group in 1994, they called themselves "Total Overcomers Anonymous." "Heaven's Gate," the name of their Web site, is apparently the name they settled on near the end of the life of the group. Marshall Herff Applewhite (aka Bo and Do) was born in 1931, the son of a Presbyterian minister in Spur, Texas. Bonnie Lu Nettles (aka Peep and Ti was born in 1927, though her birthplace is unknown. In 1952, Applewhite earned a B.A. at Austin College, and studied briefly at Union Theological Seminary in Richmond, Virginia before dropping out to pursue a career in music. He served as music director at the First Presbyterian Church in Gastonia, N.C. before moving to Houston. In Houston he pursued a career in the performing arts and became a professor of music at St. Thomas University. Nettles was a nurse when they met in Houston in 1972. Little is know about her background other than knowledge of her interest in metaphysical studies. She was a member of the local Theosophical Society and participated in channeling. She apparently introduced Applewhite to the world of metaphysical studies. Applewhite and Nettles met after he had been dismissed from St. Thomas University as the result of a scandal involving a male student. The dismissal plunged Applewhite into depression and bitterness. Balch (1995: 147) reports that Applewhite had long "vacillated between homosexual and heterosexual identities, never feeling comfortable with either." In Nettles, Applewhite found a "platonic helper" who did not threaten his sexual identity. Gradually isolating themselves, they cut off contact with others. During this period, reports Balch (1995: 142), they became "absorbed in a private world of vision, dreams, and paranormal experiences that included contacts with space beings who urged them to abandon their worldly pursuits."


If you're going to follow a false prophet, why not go all the way? Bo and Peep were doing the vision thing a lot more creatively than Joseph Smith.
2,593 posted on 05/15/2007 8:29:43 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote
"Joseph Smith did perform miracles and they are recorded." Anyone who could marry more than 33 wives sure was a miracle worker. Eleven of Smith's wives were between ages 14 and 20, nine were in their 20s, eight were in Smith's own peer group of 31 to 40, two were in their 40s and three in their 50s. And not only was he sleeping with younguns, a lot of the women were still married to others. It truly is a miracle he didn't die of an STD. that is rediculous. What were their names? Where did you get this piece of information? "He died in Illinois. Brigham Young and the other apostles led the people to Utah." That was pretty soon after his $3 Kirtland bank scam. Brigham Young was surely inspired, he married 11 of Joseph's wives. A regular Sodom and Gomoroh actually it was over ten years. The Saints travelled west in 1846. Brigham Young could not marry an of Joseph's wives because they had been sealed in the temple for time and all eternity. Again, where are you getting this from? "Latter-Day Saints do have more light and knowledge because we continue to receive revelation from the Lord and we are required to live by it." Why, with all that revealed light and knowledge, why not skip straight to getting your own planet instead of hanging around with us dumb Christians who are just going to hell anyway if we don't bow to Joseph Smith. Is that what your pastor tells you? There is nothing in our doctrine that says a person has to bow to Joseph Smith or worship him. His whole ministry was devoted to testifying that salvation comes through Jesus Christ and only Jesus Christ. I thought I answered the whole planet thing in the post above. Read it. I receive revelations myself every day, they are filled with (light and knowledge) squared, so I'm more full of it than anyone. And you know I'm telling the truth because I've never told a lie. I'll take your word for it "However, God is no respecter of persons and all are beloved sons and daughters to Him." Except those Christians and Jews who Joseph Smith said were abominations. Unless he was wrong about that, cause he seems to have been wrong a whole bunch. Joseph Smith never said Christians, Jews, or any other people were abominations. He said the creeds of men were an abomination to God. Joseph's desire was to come up into the presence of God and to learn all that he could. He could not subscribe to the creeds that say so far may a man come and no further. Neither can I. "The hieroglyphics were produced and attested to by authorities in the field." No they weren't, I posted a big link to the Mormon curator who tried to get them authenticated but gave up when four out of four real translators told him Joseph Smith's translations were a crock. I guess I missed that link. I'll have a look at it if you wish "I've seen the websites with the supposed facsimile that is supposed to be the original from which Joseph Smith referenced. If that is all you know on the subject then you are woefully uninformed. What did the detractors use to come up with their translation?" Um, they used the same funeral wrappings Joseph Smith used. Of course, there are now literally thousands of funeral casks around, and not one of them has the same book of Abraham wrappings that Joseph Smith sucked out of thin air. "What was their translation" was my question. "2. He never lost the gold plates and there were many witnesses to them as you will find in the preface to the Book of Mormon. Those who became disaffected never recanted their witness of the plates." So, where are they now? They must be worth billions. I guess they got made into the graven images you have on top your Temples. They were taken again by the angel Moroni after the witnesses were allowed to see an bare record of them. "3.He did not lose a "first translation of the Book of Mormon". The manuscript for the first book within that set of scriptures, the "Book of Lehi" was taken and never returned." That would be called "losing it" in anything other than Mormon speak. Mormon speak let's you always be right, unless you are wrong, in which case there's always a new revelation to make up for the mess you've created. No, that would be called like someone taking the Book of Genesis and not returning it. Not like taking the whole book "4.Do you know what Moses and the Priests of Arron called the Urim and Thummim? That's in the Old Testament, if you've never read it." I sure do know what they are, cause I have them right here. And I'm using them to translate the hieroglyphics I found wrapped around the imported computer parts I just got from Taiwan. They say "Joseph Smith not able translate bean soup". I'm guessing you are not familiar with the Old Testament then. I was going to use my secret decoder ring to translate my secret hieroglyphics, but the plastic broke and I lost it - oooops, I mean it was taken from me, the Prophet Fast Coyote never loses any sacred paraphenalia (unless the cops are headed my way, in which case it was a friend's). "7.He did not run a bank in Kirtland and if you were familiar at all with U.S. history you would know that there was a national bank failure at the time, which happened to affect Kirtland. Kirtland was did not start it, was not the center of it, and certainly was insignificant as to the national scope of the crisis." Then you must feel pretty stupid seeing as how Joseph Smith signed a $3 bill from Kirtland bank. Who cares what the number of the bill is? Do you see many $2 bills around anymore? Is Confederate currency legal tender anywhere? I don't get your point. "And yes, Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. Gordon B. Hinkley is the living prophet at this moment. Revelation has not ceased, nor the ministering of angels, nor Christ's intimate dealings and direction with His Apostles. The heavens are not shut and yes, the Book of Mormon is the word of God and testifies that Jesus is the Christ, the only begotten of the Father in the flesh." With all those saintly prophets running around, it's pretty hard to say that I couldn't just as well be a prophet. I think the BOM has been superceded by the Book of Zelph, look it up, it's highly enlightening. whatever
2,594 posted on 05/15/2007 8:30:33 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: MHGinTN

He asked.


2,595 posted on 05/15/2007 8:31:27 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Saundra Duffy

“Harry Reid is a MINO (Mormon in Name Only). It’s so embarrassing.”

I am privy to a lot of his quasi mafia and land deal shenanigans, he is true dirt.


2,596 posted on 05/15/2007 8:32:30 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote

The scriptures were from the Revelation of John. Do you believe in the Bible? Maybe not. Just asking. What church do yo go to?


2,597 posted on 05/15/2007 8:33:04 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Bonaparte

I belive I was fair. Now, why doesn’t everyone just say what church they go to?


2,598 posted on 05/15/2007 8:34:30 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: Bonaparte
I believe I was fair. Now, why doesn’t everyone just say what church they go to?
2,599 posted on 05/15/2007 8:34:53 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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To: FastCoyote

Again I ask, what church do you go to?


2,600 posted on 05/15/2007 8:36:14 PM PDT by DanielLongo (Don't tread on me)
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