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They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today
Saundra Duffy

Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy

They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious bigotry, alive and well today

May 4, 2007 - by Saundra Duffy-Hawkins

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

1) “It is just too weird.

2) “A Mormon president will supercharge Mormons’ missionary work.

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

King signs off with “Yours for the cause of Peace and Brotherhood”.

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

References

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: boggsforgovernor; cuespookymusic; election; lds; mormon; mormons; romney; whitesalamanderblues
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To: DelphiUser
And you can’t judge a person by theirs either.

No, but you can do a darn good job of judging ancestry with DNA.

1,341 posted on 05/08/2007 5:30:26 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: greyfoxx39
No. I think they changed the Relief Society organization leadership awhile ago (I think in the early 1970s.) If you want to read about the history of the Relief Society, here is a good link. I even learned some new things myself. :)

Relief Society

1,342 posted on 05/08/2007 5:32:32 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Eva

I agree with that.

Mitt Romney and his campaign have no idea whats in store for them if he should win the nomination.

By the time Hillary and her goons get done with him 50% of the country will think he is the antichrist.


1,343 posted on 05/08/2007 5:41:52 PM PDT by JRochelle (Al Sharpton: Its hard out here for a race pimp.)
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To: tantiboh

Thats the fun of primaries!

Pointing out the beam in everyone else’s eye and ignoring the speck of dust in your guy...

:)


1,344 posted on 05/08/2007 5:47:02 PM PDT by JRochelle (Just say no to the slick crazy bully.)
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To: JRochelle

The DNC is shooting for just a 5% suppression of conservative voting. They can easily accomplish this with a Romney nomination.


1,345 posted on 05/08/2007 5:48:21 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: DelphiUser
n College (outside Utah for the first two years), my nick name was DD (for Designated Driver) I would go to bars with some of my friends, I go the remote, free soda pop, and bar nuts, heaven. I got to watch people who didn’t care and were just going to be themselves. Plus I had friends who would not cross me for anything in the world, because they were not sure what they had told me when they were drunk (We always took one of their cars!)

Did you ever get to be the guy who got to keep your friend from drowning in their own vomit. My husband says he's had to do that more than once.

1,346 posted on 05/08/2007 5:49:39 PM PDT by HungarianGypsy
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To: DelphiUser

I’m not out yet according to Mormon Headquarters.

I got back a letter from Greg Dodge stating it is a local ecclisiastical matter, and has been referred to my Stake President.

Sorry to burst you HURRAY bubble, buddy. Now you may resume ostracizing me. Thank you very much.


1,347 posted on 05/08/2007 5:49:59 PM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: Utah Girl
I remember years ago watching Orin Hatch on 60 minutes talking about his religion with Mike Wallace.

And he got into all the minuet details too.

1,348 posted on 05/08/2007 5:50:50 PM PDT by JRochelle (Just say no to the slick crazy bully.)
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To: FastCoyote

I lived in South America for 11 years and never ran into any that I know of.

Now Nazi Germans, yes.


1,349 posted on 05/08/2007 5:53:24 PM PDT by JRochelle (Just say no to the slick crazy bully.)
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To: DelphiUser

Gosh Delph, you really need to read some of these post about Mountain Meadows. The Mormon men hastily buried the dead in mass graves, of that you are correct.

The wolves and coyotes dug them up and scattered their remains because they weren’t given a PROPER burial.

Man... bud, get your head outa the sand. Try reading one thing. Take any single rendition of the Mountain Meadows Massacre by ANYBODY who is not LDS. Is the whole world “anti” to you?


1,350 posted on 05/08/2007 5:56:10 PM PDT by colorcountry (It is wrong to criticize the leaders of the church even if the criticism is true ~Dallin Oaks)
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To: DelphiUser

“Would it be bashing if I pointed out that this is called baiting and is strictly forbidden here? “

I think you are trying to bait me with that statement. Mommmiiee!!! LOL

“and is strictly forbidden here?”

That is the best part about censorship - thoughts that are strictly forbidden create a whirlpool. Once someone learns how to use the “I’m a victim” censorship tool for their own purpose, their power grows exponentially until everyone is devoured. Reminds me of the old Don Morgan days, now he was a real pip. Got everyone else banned, then went up in a cloud of smoke, was banned himself, and spent his time in exile trashing this site for the next year.

“Have you ever been to South America?”
[I have, and the place was absolutely crawling with Lamanite and Nephite Jews, just as Joseph Smith testified.]

“How would you know? Did you expect them to come up to you wearing kepah’s, prayer shawls with beards and phylacteries?”

Trust me, I know! I am the God FastCoyote and THIS IS MY PLANET! And besides, I was following the same steel orb the Lamanites used to guide them from Scandinavia to the new world in 600 BC, so I knew just where to look.

“If you saw me on the street, and you had to guess my ethnic makeup you would probably guess WASP. I have Indians, Maoris, Spanish Irish, Scandinavian, and am a direct descendent of Abraham through the line of Joseph. I have the genealogy to prove it.”

Wow! A direct decendant of Abraham! With a 100% verified genealogy to prove it! ! ! I had a hard time getting my genealogy back to 1732, but you have a lineage back 3000 years - and verified! ! !

Maybe you could post that lineage all the way back, for the rest of us to see. I am sure you have a file copy of it direct from the LDS Family Genealogy Center, so for once we will have verified archaelogical proof of the link between a Mormon and a true Prophet!

I am sure glad someone with as much knowledge as that is able to be a Free Republic thought guide, because if people who put too much faith in science and things like DNA haplotypes were allowed to run around here, who knows what would happen????

“There is an old saying, you can’t judge a book by it’s cover. And you can’t judge a person by theirs either.”

That must be true, because someone who traces their ancestry clear back to Abraham must clearly be on top of things and a font of inspired revelation on just about every subject.

“Did you see all that ancient stone work? Nephites.”

I think you are mistaken, it was the Lamanites who followed the “party orb” from Scandinavia to the Americas in 600 BC and built the giant works at Nazca and Chichen Itza etc. Those Nephites were too unpleasing a people to ever be able to do great works like that.


1,351 posted on 05/08/2007 6:05:51 PM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: FastCoyote; DelphiUser

“And besides, I was following the same steel orb the Lamanites used to guide them from Scandinavia to the new world in 600 BC...”

Scandinavia...? Maybe you ought to actually read the book...

“Wow! A direct decendant of Abraham! With a 100% verified genealogy to prove it! ! ! I had a hard time getting my genealogy back to 1732, but you have a lineage back 3000 years - and verified! ! !”

Not tough if you tap into a Jewish line. My mother got us back to about 200 AD once she hit royalty.

“I think you are mistaken, it was the Lamanites who followed the “party orb” from Scandinavia to the Americas in 600 BC and built the giant works at Nazca and Chichen Itza etc. Those Nephites were too unpleasing a people to ever be able to do great works like that.”

By about 100 AD, there was no genetic difference between the Lamanites and the Nephites. By 400 AD, the group then known as the Nephites was extinct by conquest. You are correct that DU would have been more accurate to have said “Lamanites.”


1,352 posted on 05/08/2007 6:27:31 PM PDT by tantiboh
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Comment #1,353 Removed by Moderator

To: FastCoyote; DelphiUser

This article may interest the two of you:

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/display.php?table=review&id=601


1,354 posted on 05/08/2007 6:37:54 PM PDT by tantiboh
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To: Sherman Logan
No, but you can do a darn good job of judging ancestry with DNA.

That was my point, not with mine (Grin)

If you are looking for one marker, great, I pretty much have all of them.
1,355 posted on 05/08/2007 6:48:16 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: HungarianGypsy
Did you ever get to be the guy who got to keep your friend from drowning in their own vomit. My husband says he's had to do that more than once.

Nah, I was driving, but that is why I always took someone elses car (grin)

Their Car, their mess, park it and let it wait for them in the AM.
1,356 posted on 05/08/2007 6:50:51 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser

There are very specific Jewish DNA markers.

Research in this area has done a lot to disprove, for instance, a theory I liked, that the Ashkenazim are primarily descended from the Khazars.

All American Indian groups have very similar DNA, indicating they are descended from a small group or a small number of related groups. Their closest DNA relatives are found in Siberia.

I know of no connection at all between Indian and Jewish DNA types.


1,357 posted on 05/08/2007 6:58:28 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.)
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To: colorcountry
Now you may resume ostracizing me.

CC, you know I like you. In spite of the fact that you are an anti, you are at least reaonable (most of the time, but hey...) and you try to come from facts, not innuindo. I respect your history (everybody's got some, but yours is pretty harsh) and you are usually streight forward in your explanations of how you got where you are.

Would I prefer it if you were an active member on our side Happily working your way up jackobs ladder, but I was not promised this world would be the way I wanted it (grin) were you?

If you took anything in my post as denegrating or ostracizing, please chalk it up to my quirky sense of humor. and not to malice.
1,358 posted on 05/08/2007 7:05:38 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: colorcountry
Gosh Delph, you really need to read some of these post about Mountain Meadows. The Mormon men hastily buried the dead in mass graves, of that you are correct.

I just remember reading your post, and you said They were buried (proper or not you did not say that I remember) then I read his post about how they were buried later, and thought wait… So I pinged you. As far as facts go, I kind of consider you an expert on the whole thing (yes you should be flattered grin)

The wolves and coyotes dug them up and scattered their remains because they weren’t given a PROPER burial.

Which explains the reburial stuff

Man... bud, get your head outa the sand. Try reading one thing. Take any single rendition of the Mountain Meadows Massacre by ANYBODY who is not LDS. Is the whole world “anti” to you?

I have always been more interested in the politics leading up to and the cover-up after ward, than the gory event itself, It happened, It was shameful, Mormon men were involved, Mormons did not tell all that they knew to the authorities, The church leaders had no direct involvement and even indirect involvement is shaky in the proof department, they ordered Mormons to cooperate, the didn’t. What more do I really need to know about the actual bloody event? Do I really need to read all the descriptions of bodies? I’m not going to get sick or something, but it’s just not my interest, the politics of what was happening, that is interesting, at least to me, kind of like liking going to receptions, I guess I’m just a weird duck, I quack funny (grin)
1,359 posted on 05/08/2007 7:18:05 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: FastCoyote
I was following the same steel orb the Lamanites used to guide them from Scandinavia to the new world in 600 BC, so I knew just where to look

It was a brass ball, and they came from Israel, are you trying to change the subject?

Wow! A direct decendant of Abraham! With a 100% verified genealogy to prove it! ! ! I had a hard time getting my genealogy back to 1732, but you have a lineage back 3000 years - and verified! ! !

Actually, yes, there was a lady left behind by the ten tribes as they went north, she was ill and her daughter and few young men stayed with them. After a year, and Mom was not well, the men left to catch up to the main group. Mom died and a local nobleman took her in and married her. Then there was a war and everyone between him and the throne was killed so she became queen her papers were preserved including her diary. My mom (who is the genealogy Buff) bought a copy when we got back to her, and it includes her genealogy back to Abraham and the bible takes you the rest of the way to Adam. It’s actually cool stuff.

Maybe you could post that lineage all the way back, for the rest of us to see. I am sure you have a file copy of it direct from the LDS Family Genealogy Center, so for once we will have verified archaelogical proof of the link between a Mormon and a true Prophet!

If you want, I can get you the ISBN for the book and you can buy a copy your self. As for posting my genealogy, I don’t think I will do that as it’s huge, we get into the Plantagenets and they have a lot of relatives. I’d be banned, plus since you would now know my real name and address (I’m in my genealogy you know) who knows what kinds of junk mail I'd start getting.

I am sure glad someone with as much knowledge as that is able to be a Free Republic thought guide, because if people who put too much faith in science and things like DNA haplotypes were allowed to run around here, who knows what would happen????

Yes, you are really lucky to have me on this thread, too. AS for the DNA, well it has it’s place (inside the cell wall) but it doesn’t tell everything.

“There is an old saying, you can’t judge a book by it’s cover. And you can’t judge a person by theirs either.”

That must be true, because someone who traces their ancestry clear back to Abraham must clearly be on top of things and a font of inspired revelation on just about every subject.


It must be tough trying to compete, I know, I’ll try to tone it down some. I guess I shouldn’t tell you that we have four lines back to Adam, ops, did I say that out loud?

I think you are mistaken, it was the Lamanites who followed the “party orb” from Scandinavia to the Americas in 600 BC and built the giant works at Nazca and Chichen Itza etc. Those Nephites were too unpleasing a people to ever be able to do great works like that.

Well, this just goes to show how much you need me to help you, you see you should not try to think without a net. Here, I know some nice young gentlemen in white coats they have a net, the can show you how it works too.

BTW, I think your /sarc tags are broken.

I do not think I am smarter than everyone else, although there are many others who disagree with me on that. I do however know more about genetics than your average Joe, I am not a geneticist as I keep declining the honorary Doctorate that Yale keeps offering me. I do however know that if you are not looking at pure samples tracing markers can be much more difficult, and my genetic code is Heinz 57 at best.

Have a good night and a good laugh at my post, it’s designed that way, just as I am designed the way I am supposed to be by my maker.

(If you don't like the product, sue him.)
1,360 posted on 05/08/2007 7:47:11 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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