They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today

“I wouldn’t vote for a Mormon for dogcatcher, much less President of the United States!” There’s a lot of that kind of hateful rhetoric going around since Mitt Romney decided to throw his hat in the ring – as if Mormons are some kind of hideous evil monsters. The loudest anti-Mormon shouts, sad to say, are coming from America’s so-called “Christian right”. How can Mitt Romney hope to get a fair shake in this spiritually polluted atmosphere?

There was another man running for President who faced the same dilemma – John F. Kennedy – only he was the target of anti-CATHOLIC bigotry. In his 1960 speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, JFK said the following: “. . .I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end - where all men and all churches are treated as equal - where man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice - where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind - and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their words in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.” John F. Kennedy Library & Museum (Speeches, 1960). By the way, if you listen to the audio version of JFK’s speech, you will hear the hurt and frustration in his voice and the unfair treatment surely must have caused many a sleepless night.

Fast forward to 2007 where JFK might as well have been “whistlin’ Dixie”. The hostility toward Mormons today, in my opinion, is even worse than that suffered by JFK. Although it is said that JFK lost about a million votes to religious intolerance, Romney stands to lose even more if the anti-Mormon evangelicals hang together.

According to Media Matters for America - “. . . a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media” - FOX News is not reporting accurately on the level of evangelical hostility to the Romney run. Media Matters for America points out that among evangelical leaders rejecting Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson (National Day of Prayer and Focus on the Family, respectively), the Southern Baptist Convention (collectively), Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network), and Dr. D. James Kennedy (Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida). “Among many conservative evangelicals – who comprise a significant part of the Republican base – Mormonism is considered an un-Christian cult.” Media Matters for America (2007)

While stumping in Florida, a man in the audience stood up during the Q&A portion and said the following to Romney: “You, sir, you’re a pretender. You do not know the Lord. You’re a Mormon.” Media Matters for America (2007). This is the kind of un-American, disrespectful treatment Mitt Romney will apparently have to endure throughout the entire campaign – as if just being a Mormon is reason enough to open the floodgates for free flow of pent-up hatred and vindictiveness.

For the record, the Mormon bashers know full well that the official name of Romney’s church is “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” and the members should rightfully be called “members of the LDS Church” but the words “Mormon” and “Mormonism” have an aura of negativity so they prefer to use the “M” word as if it were dirty.

Less than five minutes cruising around the official LDS website (LDS.org) will show anyone who’s interested that the Church is a Christian organization, with Jesus Christ at the Head. There are no paid clergy – all are volunteers. Humanitarian aid is legendary. Members of the LDS Church believe in strong family values; they are patriotic, they are law-abiding upstanding citizens of their community. Many LDS young men right out of high school go on two-year missions – you know, the guys on bikes – and during their mission they don’t date, read newspapers, go to movies or watch TV; but rather they dedicate two years of their lives to serving others. Many women go on missions as well, and couples, only theirs is 18 months in length but the obligations are basically the same. Most members do not shop or go out to eat on Sundays – reminiscent of the good old days when shops and stores were closed in obedience to the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”. If they can help it, LDS Church members do not work on Sundays, either, preferring to spend the day at church and with their families. Church members are encouraged to store up a year’s supply of food and water so they will be able to care for their families in the event of an emergency. The LDS Church believes in self-sufficiency and self-reliance but in the event of a financial hardship the Church distributes food and supplies through their welfare (Bishop’s Storehouse) program. Members of the LDS Church do not drink alcohol nor do they use illicit drugs; they do not drink coffee and tea. A Mormon in good standing, therefore, will not be found in a drunken stupor puking her guts out at 3 a.m. anywhere in the world. Furthermore, members of the church are encouraged to dress modestly, be polite and courteous. And members of the LDS Church are faithful tithe payers. Come on, people, what’s not to love?

So what on earth is their beef, the anti-Mormon zealots? Why is there such disdain for the LDS Church and its members? In Hugh Hewitt’s book, “Mormon in the White House?” he states his thesis that the fierce anti-Mormon sentiment among main-stream Christians stems from one or two or all three of the following factors (in order of importance):

3) “If there is a Mormon in the White House, Salt Lake City will call the shots, at least on the biggest issues.” Hewitt (2007, p. 221-227)

Hugh Hewitt has written an exquisite book about the Romney campaign and overcoming the “Mormon problem.” It’s a good read and I highly recommend it. Of the three problem points listed in the previous paragraph, Hewitt believes – unless some unforeseen blunder destroys his chances – none of the three is insurmountable for Mitt Romney. (Plus, he has the best hair.)

Well, I’m no Hugh Hewitt, not even close; he’s an icon on the conservative radio talk show circuit. Hewitt could talk circles around me (I’ve seen him in action in Sacramento); he’s brilliant; he’s well educated, well read, no doubt a genius, plus he’s kind of cute. I’m basically a “nobody” – an overweight grandma – but after having researched for this paper, I have come to a totally different conclusion as to why there is such in-your-face angst over Romney’s religion of choice: It’s all about money, power and control (in that order). I think they’re (the evangelical religious bigots, that is) scared half to death and are revving up their attacks, not to save souls, but to save their reputations (which if tarnished would lead to financial ruin).

As I said, all one must do is browse around the LDS official web site to see what the LDS Church believes and stands for. Any reasonable person would conclude that Mormons are not evil monsters at all. In fact, they are God fearing, Christ believing, Holy Ghost following people going about doing good. “You will know them by their fruit” and the LDS has plenty of fruit and they are willing to share.

Earlier, I stated that some high-powered ministries have publicly condemned Mormons: Shirley and James Dobson, the Southern Baptist Convention, Pat Robertson, and Dr. D. James Kennedy – just to name a few. There are hoards of others. Sunday after Sunday, preachers, evangelists, reverends and ministers from all Christian denominations pound the pulpit with anti-Mormon rhetoric. I heard the message loud clear when I was a Baptist and when I tiptoed through evangelical/Pentecostal territories. Was I ever miffed when I later learned for myself the Gospel truth about the LDS Church.

Just think about it, please. If Dr. D. James Kennedy, for example, who wrote the book, The Wolves Among Us, were to admit he’d been wrong in labeling the LDS Church a “cult” that leads unwary ignorant people astray (to hell), what would become of his multi-million-dollar ministry? Suffice it to say, there’s big money to be had by sale of books, tapes, CD’s, videos, and other anti-Mormon propaganda, not to mention speaking engagements and world-wide religious crusades. We’re talking trillions, all told. I realize the anti-Mormon aspect of these ministries is but a small portion of the business, but if the truth came out, that they had been using falsehoods about the LDS Church as a cash cow, their entire empires could tumble.

The ABC News program 20/20 aired on March 23, 2007, exposed the lavish lifestyles of some of the top evangelical preachers – million dollar mansions and personal jets. ABC News - 20/20 (2007) (Again, the LDS Church has no paid clergy.)

It’s nothing new. Severe harassment and persecution has been the lot of the LDS Church since it’s inception in 1820 when a 14-year-old boy named Joseph Smith saw visions and communed with heavenly beings. Rather than discuss the spiritual aspects of the LDS Church, however, let’s stick to facts of history. Taken from a college-level early American history textbook, Joseph Smith, upon experiencing the visions and visitations, believed “that God had work for me to do, and that my name should be for good and evil among all nations, kindreds and tongues.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 292). The textbook continues, “They were met with hostility virtually everywhere they went . . . . As the movement gathered momentum, hundreds of people joined the church; entire congregations of churches of other faiths joined . . .” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 293)

During the dark time of American history when slavery was flourishing and when Native Americans were forced from their lands, the pioneers of the LDS Church also suffered at the hands of unscrupulous politicians, governmental leaders, and angry hate-filled mobs. “In the face of relentless persecution, Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, had led his flock to Illinois. There they had established the town of Nauvoo, which by the mid-1840’s had become the largest city in Illinois with over 15,000 people. . . In June 1844, a mob of non-Mormons broke into the jail where Smith was being held and killed both him and his brother. . .The Mormons abandoned Nauvoo in the spring of 1846 as anti-Mormons pounded the town with cannon, destroying the Great Temple. In a well-coordinated migration, 15,000 Mormons moved in stages to the Great Salt Lake.” Ayers, Gould, Oshinsky, and Soderlund (2004, p. 334-335) Many walked all the way and many died along the way, including innocent babes.

Joseph Smith at one time was tarred and feathered by a mob. No jury, no trial, no judge – and they had planned to castrate him, too. On October 27, 1838, the then governor of Missouri issued an “extermination order”: “The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary . . .” Far West History (n.d.) Please note that the order called for exterminating “Mormons” making no distinction between men, women and children, and indeed women and children were subject to the extermination order.

In an event known in LDS history as “the Haun’s Mill Massacre”, precipitated by the extermination order, 30 to 40 LDS families were surprised by some 200 to 250 militia. After the smoke cleared, seventeen LDS people lay dead including a ten-year-old boy. Thirteen LDS members were wounded including a woman and a seven-year-old boy. “A few Missourians returned the next day and took plunder.” LDS FAQ (n.d.) No Missouri militiamen were killed but three were wounded. Just a few years earlier, the LDS folk who died that day had been members of other churches - Congregational or Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian.

In l976, Governor Bond of Missouri officially rescinded the extermination order and presented apologies for the “unfortunate developments” it caused. Quoting from Governor Bond’s Executive Order: “WHEREAS, Governor Boggs’ order clearly contravened the rights to life, liberty, property and religious freedom as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, as well as the Constitution of the State of Missouri; and . . . Expressing on behalf of all Missourians our deep regret for the injustice and undue suffering rescind Executive Order Number 44 dated October 27, 1838, issued by Governor W. Boggs. . .” Far West History (n.d.) The individuals who harassed, abused, and even murdered Mormons in cold blood were never tried for their crimes.

I read Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and it really touched my heart. There he was, suffering for the Lord in jail, and these religious leaders with highfalutin titles on the outside wrote an open letter (“A Call for Unity”) in which they criticize King’s tactics and basically blame King for the racial turmoil of the time. Though you can tell King is upset and hurt by the attack – made worse because he’s stuck in jail and can’t confront the religious leaders face-to-face – his response is gentle genius. “I wish you had commended the Negro sit-inners and demonstrators of Birmingham for their sublime courage, their willingness to suffer, and their amazing discipline in the midst of great provocation. One day the South will recognize its real heroes.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 881)

King has a few choice words for the Church, too: “If today’s church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust.” Barnet and Bedau (2005, p. 880)

There’s an eerie commonality between what JFK and MLK endured at the hands of the religious bigots of their day and what Mitt Romney is facing today. I hope and pray that Romney will be able to fend off these undeserved attacks from the religious hypocrites with the same grace, dignity and God-inspired resolve displayed by the other two.

A few popular bumper stickers read: “Honk if you love Jesus” and “Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven” or “Jesus is my co-pilot”. Yet, apparently, these same bumper-sticker Christians are the ones waging war against Mitt Romney’s run for the Presidency solely on the basis of his chosen faith in a Church that bears the name of the Savior of the world.

ABC News - 20/20 (2007). Philanthropic donations come from your heart, but where do they end up? Ex-money manager says "enough!" to secretive Christian Ministry spending. Glenn Ruppel & John Stossel. United States: ABC News.

Ayers, E. L., Gould, L. L., Oshinsky, D. M., & Soderlund, J. R. (2004). American Passages - a history of the United States - Volume I: to 1877 (2nd ed.). Belmont, California: Thomson/Wadsworth.

Barnet, S., & Bedau, H. (2005). Letter from Birmingham Jail. Current Issues and Enduring Questions - a guide to critical thinking and argument, with readings (7th ed., pp. 867-882). Boston and New York: Bedford/St. Martin's.

Far West History. (n.d.). The Extermination Order and how it was rescinded. Retrieved April 28, 2007, from http://www.jwha.info/mmff/exorder.htm

Hewitt, H. (2007). A Mormon in the White House? 10 things every American should know about Mitt Romney. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing, Inc.

John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum. (1960, September 12). Address of Senator John F. Kennedy to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://www.jfklibrary.org

Lds Faq. (n.d.). What was the Haun's Mill Massacre? Retrieved April 28-2007, 2004, from Brigham Young University Web Site: http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/view.asp?q=57

Media Matters for America. (2007). Fox News whitewashes evangelical hostility to Romney's faith. Retrieved April 22, 2007, from http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200702280002

CC I would always want you to be with your husband companionship is priceless and still hurts even after they have pass on! I look forward to the day when my husband and I reunite someday!:)

"'Moses wrote for us that if a man's brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow...Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. The second and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died...Finally, the woman died too. Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?'" [Luke 20:28-33]

So far, they're asking Jesus if this woman is going to be a polygamist in the afterlife. How does Jesus respond?

"Jesus replied, 'The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead..." [So Jesus separates out the "people of this age" from "resurrected" folks]

"But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age WILL NEITHER MARRY NOR BE GIVEN IN MARRIAGE...

Jesus told them that the question is a moot issue. LDS try to skirt around Jesus' exact words by saying, "Yeah we know there won't be additional marriages in heaven." But if that was the proper interpretation of Jesus' words, then he wouldn't have answered the question being asked of him. He wasn't being asked, "How many more times than seven is this woman going to be married? (in heaven)"

As LDS would have it, the Sadducees who asked this question would come right back at Jesus and say, "So what she won't get married again? You didn't answer our question? She was sealed to all 7 husbands. Which one will she be attached to forever?"

The problem is that LDS settles for a mere man as a husband when God is offering His true church His own Son as the bridesgroom. The only marriage in heaven is between the Son and His bride, the church.

"For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear...Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!" (Rev. 19:7-9) "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb' And he carried me away int he Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God." (Rev. 21:9-10) "The spirit and the bride say, 'Come!' (Rev. 22:17)

I would advise all LDS to stop this mega plan of future "two-timing" on Jesus Christ (our relationship to Him and to our spouse in heaven). The heavenly family is forever, yes. But it's one family. Families within THE FAMILY. But Jesus will be our only spouse. He's enough. We won't (and don't) need any other. Our security and dependency and relationship of knowing is with Him.

..a mormon is not allowed to enter the doors of a temple unless he has paid a "full and honest" tithe, in order to obtain a "recommend" to do so from the bishop. Therefore, he must declare that, if not at a "tithing settlement", at an interview to obtain the "recommend." Additionally, since full salvation to a mormon requires that he perform certain rituals held only in said temple, he cannot enter the "celestial kingdom" which many others might consider "Heaven".

Sounds like a major reformation is in order. What do you think Luther pounded the "95 Theses" in the door for? He was most provoked by indulgences, the selling of items for purposes of things like cutting off the amount of time somebody might spend in purgatory.

Now, LDS aren't selling indulgences to cut the amount of time somebody spends in their supposed "spirit prison," but it does make divinity for sale. You won't get to be a god unless you're able to perform all works needed. And you can't perform all works needed unless you can get into the temple. And you can't get into the temple unless you turn over a tithe.

No, what got to me is how the church deals with science. For example, the reputable LDS scholars all believe that Joseph Smith was wrong and that the scientists are right that the Lamanite/Nephite civilization are not the principal ancestors of the Native Americans.

“The reputable LDS scholars”, Link please?

And IMHO saying “reputable Scientists“ is about like saying reputable prostitutes. Don’t get me wrong, I like Science, I am a techno geek, but too many scientists try to pass off what they do as infallible, and I know too much about science.

Why did they change their mind?

Because they are scientists and someone offered them a grant to “do research”. Scientists take money to do research and “prove” what the person giving them the money wanted proven. When in doubt, follow the money. (I sound pretty darn cynical here, don’t I?)

Is it because there has been ZERO evidence found of the Lamanite/Nephite civilization?

Have you ever been to South America?

Is it because the scientists of all disciplines agree that the ancestors of the Native Americans were people who crossed a land bridge that once existed on the Bering Straits?

Wow, you sound like Al Gore, Scientists all agree, so it must be right. First of all Scientist don’t all agree, they NEVER do. (I try never to speak in absolutes Grin) Second, I can match you scientist for scientist, because there is money on both sides. Third, the majority of Scientists all agreed that the world was flat, the sun revolved about us, and something about a giant turtle carrying the earth. I rest my case on “Science”

Whatever it is its happened that they’ve changed their mind about the ancestry of the Native Americans.

They? They Who? These un-named un-linked, un knowing scientists?

BTW for restornu .... I had a very strong testimony. That’s a fact and all your suggestions that this wasn’t so are simply rubbish. I mourned my loss of testimony in Mormonism very deeply and would love to have it back if such a thing were honestly possible.

It is, but you have to decide who you will believe, God or scientists.

When I was in Taiwan, I had an experience that relates to this, May I?

I was in a park with my companion teaching a first discussion to a new person we had met. This college student came up and very rudely (especially for Chinese manners) started trying to interrupt our discussion because as Americans whose country was only 200 years old we should not be teaching someone whose country was 4,000 years old (his words) I got up and walked far enough away to be able to discuss this with him while my companion continued the discussion (we were still within sight of my Companion) He eventually got down to telling me he believed in the ”Church of Science” if you can see it, feel it or taste it, it’s real. (Like a thought, grin) I told him that “True science is merely another form of theology” The spirit came down like a ton of bricks and testified that what I had just said was true. He was stunned by feeling the spirit, but not ready to admit defeat, said “so you believe religion over what you can see? I responded “My eyes have been deceived before, my ears have been deceived before, I have even been tricked before so I do not trust to my eyes, ears or mind. God has never deceived me. I will always follow that feeling you just felt for it will not lead me astray.” Then I quoted to him “In questioning deity, any answer is significant.” – Attributed to Confucius, but what isn’t.

Do not trust Science over God, for that is the very definition of putting your trust in the arm of flesh.

Frankly the biggest problem facing the church today is the ever-willingness of its defenders to spin, lie, distort, withhold the truth, etc. on any issue that comes up which might not make the church look good.

If I have said anything that is untrue, it is either because of a faulty memory, or it was a mistake. Therefore it is not a lie for lying takes intent.

Some members wearing rose-colored glasses don’t see how foolish this makes them look.

Actually, mine are contacts (some unfiltered light was getting in around the edges /Humor

But for those outside the fold its quite obvious. And your statements about me are definitely false.

This is why we are told never to make value judgments restornu.

That isn’t what I heard. Apostacy is one of the most heinous of sins, and you definitely can and will be excommunicated for it.

Maybe 30 or 40 years ago, but today, you have to commit a “grievous sin”, or request it or be in direct disobedience.

Not only do I not sustain the Prophet, but as you are well aware, I am very vocal in my opposition.

Unless the church directly tells you to stop, and you don’t three times, you will not be excommunicated for vocally opposing the church. My guess is you have never been warned by your bishop or anyone but other posters (grin)

Definelty and excommunicable offense.

Not by the General Handbook of Instructions.

And to tell the truth, I’ve given enough information on FR to pinpoint my identity.

I had worried about that on a couple of posts, just a hint, do not use pictures on your about page hosted on your own website (grin). I didn’t bring it up because I didn’t want to give you away.

One of you could in all likelihood turn me in. In fact I have been grilled on exact dates of pertinent incidences in my life. Generally I only give approximate references.

I for one would never do that. Your life, your choice.

“I will defend to your death your right to remain silent!” No wait it’s “ I will defend to my death your right to say something stupid”… No that’s not quite right either… I will defend to my death your right to say what I want you too”… Um, I’ll get back to you when I get this perfected. (do I really need a Humor tag?)

A consequence of NOT obtaining a "recomend" or being temple worthy is that if one's child marries in the LDS temple one is not allowed to attend the nuptial ceremony and indeed, must wait outside the doors of the temple

They have waiting rooms just off of the lobby

Seems coercive to me.

Since there are “No pictures” and no refreshments, and not talking in the sealing room, just don’t go, go to the reception, that’s where all the fun is anyway. Nobody is forcing anybody.

There may be other churches that have similar rules regarding tithing, but I, thankfully, have no personal knowledge of them. I have often wondered about this: All the temple ordinances are required for one to enter the "celestial kingdom" and all the ordinances are performed for the dead. First the baptism (can be performed by proxy by anyone over 12) then the endowment, then the sealing to one's family.

All the ordinances are indeed needed before one can get to the "celestial kingdom". If the mormons are baptizing people after they die to provide them with the chance at salvation thru their temple rituals, and tithing is required of living members to obtain same, how do they collect the tithe from the dead?

Let’s be silly, Tithing is for us to have the right priority, and to help us keep our hearts pure, the dead do not have to pay tithing. (you are thinking of the death tax the Dhemmicrats love so much)

As said, I don’t believe in bashing Mormons of today for the sins of their ancestors.

The only thing I object to is the common Mormon propensity for comparing their “persecution” in the 19th century to the persecution of the early Christians, the Holocaust, etc., as if the Mormons were wholly innocent victims of prejudice and bigotry.

In fact, there was something close to a low-key civil war between Mormons and gentiles in America for several decades. Atrocities were committed on both sides, although the Mormons probably killed more innocents than their opponents.

At the Haun’s Mill Massacre, apparently the one where the largest number of Mormons were killed, 17 died. All adult men, with the exception of one 10 year old boy who was murdered after the fighting stopped.

13 Mormons were wounded, including some women and children. No women or children, other than the 10 year old, were killed.

When you compare this to Mountain Meadows, the contrast is obvious.

BTW, I do recognize that many, probably most, of the Mormons who were “persecuted” were indeed innocent. But then so were most of those who died at MM.

You are quite correct about the low profile of Mountain Meadows. I’m a little younger than you, and I never heard of MM till about five years ago, actually when reading a Mark Twain travel book. And I’ve been reading histories of this period for 40 years. I’d known of Haun’s Mill, for instance, for decades, although that may be partly because I grew up not far away.

For instance, there was a major massacre of “scabs” by labor unionists in Herrin County, IL during the 20s, and I’d never heard of it till a few months ago. 20 men were killed, after surrendering, as in MM.

Certain incidents in American history just seem to disappear, perhaps because they don’t fit the “theme” that a historian is trying to illustrate.

If 20 unionists had been killed in Herrin, or 100+ Mormons killed at MM, I’m sure these killings would be a lot more prominent in American histories. Then they would fit the theme of evil bigoted white men oppressing labor, religious minorities, etc.

But when evil bigoted whites are massacred, especially by the “good guy” minority, it doesn’t fit the theme and is therefore ignored.

I'm staying up tonight to watch the Spurs Suns game. Then the Utah Warriors game is the late one Wednesday night, etc. I don't know if I can afford all the lost sleep for these great playoff games ... but it puts me behind the keyboard when the Westerners are posting, so it's not all lost.

If we pro-life folks don't soon find a way to blunt the goon squad negatives campaign which will accompany the Rodham-rodent's run for the White House, our nation will be completely at the mercy of the democrat socialist leftist agenda and those aligned with the DNC/DNC aligned themselves with, the islamofascist terrorists.

While it would be helpful at FR for Mormon Apologists to not take any Romney thread as an opportunity to proselytize --we would have shorter threads and a lot less knockdown dragouts between Apologists from both camps, and I'm in the opposite apologist camp to Mormonism Apologists-- the reality is, the DNC is going to exploit the deep differences in Christian Orthodox beliefs and Mormonism beliefs, without the give and take seen at FR, leaving Romney to appear an strange, 'peculiar' cultist! This will suppress just enough votes to give the Rodham-rodent the White Whore House (with the degenerate one back in there, that is exactly what it willbe) and a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. THEN we will all be in a world of hurt.

It has become apparent that Mormons and Christian Apologists like myself are not going to come to a common ground for defining Mormonism as Christian. Mant Mormons are Christians, just like many Baptist are Christians. The sect isn't what establishes whether an individual is a Christian, the personal relationship with Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the God of Creation the Almighty is what establishes that. You may have noticed that I do not post BofM passages and characterize them ... yet I have a copy on my computer and could do that. In fact, I have mentioned things about the Book of Mormon without posting the passages because I have seen what someMOrmonism Apologists have done with Bible passages taken out of context so I willnot be in the mob prone to do that with others' considered sacred scriptures. I don't do it with the Koran either, yet I hold that to be a total work of fiction from the twisted minds of men in rebellion to God's still small voice.

Perhaps I should stop now, before I alienate you too, although, you do not appear to have the Momronism apologist's tendency to take anything as an affront in order to post yet another doubt seed about Orthodox Christian beliefs by citing scritptures out of context.

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