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Va. Tech Killer Ruled Mentally Ill by Court; Let Go After Hospital Visit
ABC News ^ | April 18, 2007 | NED POTTER and DAVID SCHOETZ

Posted on 04/18/2007 1:55:30 PM PDT by Ben Mugged

A Virginia court found that Virginia Tech killer Seung-Hui Cho was "mentally ill" and dangerous. Then it let him go.

Back in 2005, the District Court in Christiansburg said that Cho was a danger to himself but not others. He was ordered to undergo outpatient care.

The ruling came after Cho was taken to a nearby psychiatric hospital for evaluation in December 2005, after two female schoolmates said they received threatening messages from him and police and school officials became concerned that he might be suicidal.

That information came to light two days after Cho, a Virginia Tech senior, killed 32 people and then himself in a shooting rampage on the university's campus.

Police obtained the order from a local magistrate after it was determined by a state certified employee that Cho met legal criteria for temporary detention that includes being a threat to others and being unable to care for himself.

Under Virginia law, "A magistrate has the authority to issue a detention order upon a finding that a person is mentally ill and in need of hospitalization or treatment.

"The magistrate also must find that the person is an imminent danger to himself or others," says the guideline from Virginia's state court system.

Wendell Flinchum, the chief of the Virginia Tech police department, said that it's common for police to work with mental health facilities

"We normally go through access [appealing to the state's legal system for help] because they have the power to commit people if they need to be committed," said Wendell Flinchum, chief of the Virginia Tech police department.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: cho; communistgoals; massmurderer; psychiatry; vatech; virginiatech; vtech; vtkiller
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To: Aikonaa

Thing is, this isn’t the first time that NICS and similar systems have been caught out doing this. NICS, for example, has been known to throw out false “do not sell” results for no apparent reason, as well as allowing felons whose info actually *is* in NICS to buy firearms.

The liberals promised us that NICS and similar systems would *never* have any problems. I say we hold them to that promise and scrap it since it’s had so many; and we’ve spent untold millions on it. We need to cut our losses. If we need a NICS-like system, fine - but we should start over. What we have now clearly doesn’t work, IMHO.


121 posted on 04/18/2007 3:35:25 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr
Some states, like Missouri, use a central data base for Missouri and neighboring states. All you have to do is run a background check and if it wasn’t entered in the data base, then you get bupkis. You can pretty much pull that up with a decent background check service on the Internet. In our practice, we use a pretty good service to track down heirs, deadbeat parents, and the like. It can pull it up from any state.
122 posted on 04/18/2007 3:42:09 PM PDT by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: Constitutions Grandchild

And if you could find it that way, it *should* have been in VCIN, no?


123 posted on 04/18/2007 3:43:16 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr
Is there a Freeper out there who has access to the Virginia database and can find out if here is in there or not?

(or is that some violation of privacy for a dead guy? ;-) )
124 posted on 04/18/2007 3:47:37 PM PDT by cgbg (We eight-eight flops of horse manure. We have tenure.)
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To: cgbg

Well, someone could pull a FOIA request and see what comes of it...


125 posted on 04/18/2007 3:48:45 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr
"OK, but you have to use a computer to get that case number, no?"

No, but it's much easier. The PD files consist of paper in boxes somewhere also. Since they dragged up this info, I'd guess the info's on the net for some cash. Could be Lexis-Nexis would give it up.

"And if it’s in that computer index, chances are everything else relevant is too."

Sure, but it apparently didn't end up in the NICS, or VA's check(if they do a separate one). THey do in WI. A county check would turn it up.

126 posted on 04/18/2007 3:49:24 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: spunkets

The NICS law has an exception for commitments for evaluation or observation which is what Cho had.

It may be the system failed, but it may also be that for the purposes of NICS this legal action was insufficient to trigger submission to NICS.


127 posted on 04/18/2007 4:00:01 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Social vs fiscal conservtism? Sorry, I'm not voting my wallet over the broken bodies of the innocent)
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To: Valpal1

In VA, the gun store still has to consult VCIN, which is the VA version of NICS. And VCIN is supposed to have that information in it.


128 posted on 04/18/2007 4:01:16 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: spunkets

I knew he had stalked but I wasn’t sure if the charges were pending or what. Thanks.


129 posted on 04/18/2007 4:02:53 PM PDT by pa mom (God bless Tech--and I'm a Wahoo!)
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To: spunkets

If he had a record of stalking, how did he get a gun?


130 posted on 04/18/2007 4:03:31 PM PDT by pa mom (God bless Tech--and I'm a Wahoo!)
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To: spunkets

Lovely.


131 posted on 04/18/2007 4:04:21 PM PDT by pa mom (God bless Tech--and I'm a Wahoo!)
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To: pa mom

That is the question we’re all asking.

Even more importantly, how did he manage to get TWO guns over the counter inside of two months?


132 posted on 04/18/2007 4:07:23 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

I still do not believe temporary detention/evaluation orders meets the legal criterion. He was evaluated and released, not evaluated, adudicated mentally ill and involuntarily committed.

Sucks, but there it is. And do we want everyone ever evaluated against their will (perhaps at the behest of an enemy or ex-wife) prevented from purchasing or owning firearms?


133 posted on 04/18/2007 4:11:24 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Social vs fiscal conservtism? Sorry, I'm not voting my wallet over the broken bodies of the innocent)
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To: pa mom

Because he didn’t have a “record”. Complaints were made, but the girls refused to press charges. Never charged, never convicted, thus no “record”.


134 posted on 04/18/2007 4:13:55 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Social vs fiscal conservtism? Sorry, I'm not voting my wallet over the broken bodies of the innocent)
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To: freemike
There has been a big push to empty the mental hospitals.

Can't this be traced back to Jimmah "the nut" Carter?

135 posted on 04/18/2007 4:18:35 PM PDT by TXBubba ( Democrats: If they don't abort you then they will tax you to death.)
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To: Valpal1
"I still do not believe temporary detention/evaluation orders meets the legal criterion. He was evaluated and released, not evaluated, adudicated mentally ill and involuntarily committed."

There is no such thing as "temporary detention/evaluation". There is only involuntary committment. That's what counts. Cho was involuntarily committed. The minimum stay is 3 days. The maximum is 'till death.

"do we want everyone ever evaluated against their will (perhaps at the behest of an enemy or ex-wife) prevented from purchasing or owning firearms?"

Yes. The committment process requires a court order and a hearing(s). The only way to get committed is if you're really nuts, or you fail to defend yourself. Cho had his hearing and the judge was convinced the guy was nuts. He was convinced by Cho's acitons and words, the police, and the 2 women that testified that Cho stalked and bothered them.

136 posted on 04/18/2007 4:22:29 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: spunkets
Read the article, from the third paragraph According to the "Temporary Detention Order" obtained by ABC News.
137 posted on 04/18/2007 4:35:56 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Social vs fiscal conservtism? Sorry, I'm not voting my wallet over the broken bodies of the innocent)
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To: Valpal1
"Read the article, from the third paragraph According to the "Temporary Detention Order" obtained by ABC News."

Sorry I don't use inacurate colloquial defs and meanings, especially from ABC. Cho was adjudicated incompitent and the relevant term is committed. The court finding should have been in the NICS database and caused the rejection of any and all firearm transactions. Cho also lied on the ATF form when he answered no to question 11-f, "~have you ever been adjudicated incompitent."

138 posted on 04/18/2007 4:42:14 PM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: spunkets

Read Virginia Statutes. They do have a Temporary Detention Order which preceeds an involuntary commitment. After being detained and evaluated you are either released or a hearing is held to obtain involuntary commitment and treatment.

Cho was released, not committed. Nor was he adjudicated incompetent (which means you have a guardian or become a ward of the state and cannot make legal or treatment decisions for yourself).


139 posted on 04/18/2007 4:49:14 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Social vs fiscal conservtism? Sorry, I'm not voting my wallet over the broken bodies of the innocent)
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To: Valpal1
What really chaps me is that a lot of women call 911 or the cops to scream, whine and complain.......and then refuse to press charges.

A lot of people might be alive today if these inexplicable female addlepates had the spine to follow through with their complaint.......and not only in Virginia.

I've seen cops on the "bad boys" program literally beg some women to press charges against vicious perpetrators only to be rebuffed.

I wonder if the VT women who dropped their complaints are having some pangs of conscience right now.

Leni

140 posted on 04/18/2007 4:52:05 PM PDT by MinuteGal (Bahama Mama ( moi) planning FReeper vacation week. Not a cruise. It's "FReeps Ashore!" Stay tuned!)
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