Posted on 04/09/2007 10:15:14 PM PDT by Positive
Twenty some years ago I convinced a woman to marry me.
Fourteen years and two children later, she decided to divorce me because "she was never 'in love' with me."
This woman was reared as a Christian Scientist, but was not practicing when I met her, nor did she during our marriage.
Just before this last Chistmas this woman (age 57), who was quite healthy, began to experience shortness of breath, fatigue, coughing and lack of appetite. She is 5'10" and weighed 130ish pounds at that time (slender).
Today she weighs 90 pounds, can barely walk from one room to another without stopping to catch her breath and obviously eats hardly at all.
Yet she refuses to see a medical doctor.
She is following the Christian Science way to deal with this "nothing"...that is seclusion and attended prayer with a practicioner.
The problem is my 18 year old daughter and 16 year old son live with her. They believe she is dying and is wrong in that she denys she is even ill.
I have given "back channel" advice to her family on estate and financial matters, which has been accepted and appears as if much of it will be done (this is my professional background}.
What I wish I knew how to help with is to open her mind and heart to the fact that this "fringe" religious belief is not working and is causing terrible fear and pain to her (our) children.
Any first hand experience, psychological advice or Christian Scientific insight that could help to convince this woman to seek conventional medical attention would be deeply appreciated.
By the way, googled symptoms (shortness of breath after exertion, dry cough, weakness, fatigue, lack of appetite seem to indicate Pulmonary Fibrosis for which there is no known cause and is currently incurable.
Prayer is appreciated and not to be underestimated...but as Sister Teresa (sp?) said "we should do all that is in our power...then leave the rest to God.
OPINION: The disease might be active TB or other diseases. Only a doctor can diagnose a disease for sure. I am not a doctor.
Since your 16-year-old son in a not an adult it seems like you have leverage/options to have your children come live with you. You might also have the kids get a physical exam so that their health can be monitored, too.
Prayers for you and your family, may God bring you all back together in love before it is too late, may God open her eyes to see the truth of what is happening, if it is to be His will.
The symptoms also sound like what my grandmother had—congestive heart failure—definitely needs care, but don’t forget that God is the Ultimate Physician and miracles *do* happen each and every day.
I’m so sorry your children are having to watch their mother die before their very eyes. :*(
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Gentle Healing Hugs to them and you}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
As hard as it may be, you might want to get the children out of the situation (legally, of course). This can not be good for them.
Maybe making moves to do the above will help wake her to the reality of what she is doing.
What about her family? Have they tried to approach her? I'm guessing they and the children would have a better chance of getting through than you do.
That's all I can think of right now. Sorry you and your kid have to go through this.
Christian Science and Scientology are two separate ‘religions’.
Christian Science info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science
Scientology info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology
Just the threat of removal of the kids might spark some compromise on her part...of course in California, the kids would have to agree.
I will look into this possibility.
STAY OUT OF IT.
Your children are old enough to leave if they want to. Give them that option, then stay the hell away from the whole mess.
You cant fix crazy, nor should you try. Spend time with crazy people, and it starts to rub off. Your ex is nuts. Deal with it. Save yourself, and give your children the option of doing the same.
Then back off, or someday, you will wish to God that you did.
Good luck.
Thanks for the links and clarification.
No Christian Science is a religion founded by an American woman named Mary Baker Eddy about 150 years ago. Mark Twain was a practitioner.
Man oh man is that right.
Then back off, or someday, you will wish to God that you did.
Wise words indeed.
L
Anytime. :-)
Wiki’s pretty liberal and leftist, but sometimes it’s useful.
I ran, but I have friends who though they could beat crazy. They are now crazy's bitch.
If there is time, I'm sure I can attain custody, but I am more concerned about his having to live with this horror...
In the long run you know well that I can't stay out of it, nor should I.
Any signs of anorexia with the above?
Certainly prayer seems like the big key.
Pastor Henry Wright’s book
A MORE EXCELLENT WAY outlines extensive research connecting all kinds of specific diseases to specific problems in relationships with others and with God etc. Well worth the $17 at Amazon though it’s a thick paperback.
In terms of altering her construction on reality—I doubt you will get very far.
The most effective things I’ve ever seen or read of in terms of that are paradoxical sorts of things. But they are risky and usually need to be done very precisely. But, short of a professional . . . one could research such on the net and experiment—sounds like there’s not a lot to lose—even her kids could experiment with such.
The granddaddy of such experts is now deceased—was MILTON ERICKSON of Phoenix—a psychiatrist wheelchair bound from two bouts with polio.
One strategy might be to slowly, subtly have both kids start to prescribe the symptoms. That is, prescribe MORE rigid, narrow, avoidance of whatever she’s avoiding. They might be able to sneak some nutritional diet drinks into some fruit juice or some such a quarter cup at a time or some such to make up for her crazy eating habits.
They might advise whatever Christian Science mumbo jumbo she’s going therough every 10 minutes instead of hourly or every hour instead of 3 times a day or whatever.
The goal would be to play it very straight but be seen by mom to slowly sort of go off the deep end with her getting more and more intense and strict and crazy advising all the sorts of things MORE that she’s doing now.
The relatively high odds are that at some point, sufficient parts of her would become suspicious or wake up and say—ENOUGH OF THIS BS.
Or, she could become paranoid and convinced that the kids were trying to do her in—especially if they left hints here and there—say to get her money or relieve her of her misery or some such—not true, of course but if she thought so—she would likely want to rebel against that—which would mean abandoning her craziness to deal with the kids supposed skullduggery.
I realize these are all somewhat radical strategies. I don’t know that conventional ones are likely to get very far, at all.
Certainly conventional behavior mod could be employed—reinforcing any hint of movement away from the craziness and looking away; avoiding social contact; verbally censuring her for such nonsense. But that tends to be slow—especially when religious emotional intensity is stubbornly involved. Not sure how long her health gives her.
It MIGHT be possible for the kids to hand her a tissue when she coughed and try and very subtly get a sputum sample to take to the docs if she will not go. That would give SOME clue of the realities in her lungs. They could take the tissue and put it in a ziploc and take it right away or perhaps the next day after keeping it in the fridge overnight—a medical person would best advise about that.
Another alternative might be just for the kids to start interviewing her about what she wants for her funeral arrangements etc. ets. ad nauseum. If she didn’t cooperate, they could talk to each other within her hearing planning it without her input. They talk about some things they’d know she’d like and every 3-4 things insert something they’d be certain she’d hate. At some point, she might decide all such talk was too frightening and renew her will to live and take better charge of her life.
If a lot of relatives live in the area, the kids could arrange an endless troop of relatives and friends through to “say their goodbyes” very overtly and obviously. The idea being, again, that it MIGHT jangle her into wanting to live in the present yet again.
Another possibility is for the kids to give her an hour of straight honest relating alternated with an hour of answering whatever she says with off the wall comments that made no sense at all or that vaguely hinted at living a different way. Or, one day the daughter could take such a tack while the son didn’t and alternate days switch. AT some point, it could well become so disconcerting that she’d opt out of the rut she’s in—if nothing else—out of concern for the kids and their sanity.
I don’t have any other clever ideas off the top of my head. I should emphasize that YOU MUST !!!!NOT!!!! start down any of the radical paths unless you & kids are DETERMINED TO PLAY THEM STRAIGHT until they produce some significant change that you can work with.
Even then, I’d suggest that at least one of the kids continues the radical stance until 24-72 hours have passed with her back in a more reasonable construction on reality and healthier choices.
Premature abandoning the strategy could mean she’d be all that further away and harder to reach. NOT something any of us want.
Again, it would be best to have a professional in such strategies working with the family and the mother directly. Short of that—given possibly real life and death realities, I’d do what I could IF I felt good in my spirit about it and IF I was convined I could pull my part off reasonably well.
Prayers and God be with each of you.
Congrats for your lingering caring for such a troublesome ex.
BTDTGTTS.
It took me years to recover and that happened after the divorce.
I gotta agree with you. The poster is in for a long, painful, slow motion train wreck if he hangs around.
Do what you can for the kids but leave the whack-job to her own devices. With any luck, she'll end up like my ex.
Crazy people don't usually live very long.
L
I’m sorry to hear about this situation. I pray she will get better... Have you sat down with her to have a “heart to heart” to let her know that you care about her well being? Maybe you should offer to pray with her...then tell her that from your prayer you feel strongly that she should see a doctor. Tell her God still has plans for her and that her kids need her. Offer the argument that even though God nourishes the soul that he still expects us to eat and that using medicine is no different than food preparation or mending clothes. We don’t ask God to fix that which he has inspired us through his wisdom to do ourselves...
If you don’t want to take that tack maybe you could see if she would allow a doctor or nurse to come and visit her at her home. Sadly not many doctors are willing to do that anymore, everything must be cold sterile and “professional” but putting the game on her playing field may make the difference. I pray she will come to her senses and understand that faith and belief in God is not lessened by the work of Doctors but instead is a much needed complement to their talents and skills in medicine.
I know a number of Pentecostal prayer warrior/spiritual warfare types who’d get a prayer group together and bind the demonic forces behind Christian Science and command them to be silent in Jesus’ Name. And then loose Holy Spirit to witness to her mind and spirit until she began to seek God earnestly and more sanely.
But I don’t know if you have such a group nearby nor if you could in clear conscience buy into such a strategy. It might well be the strategy I’d seek first.
You’re welcome Positive.
May God bless your family.
At sixteen, it seems maybe he can get himself emancipated. As for the ex...at this point she may just have to be committed.
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