Posted on 03/14/2007 3:08:45 PM PDT by RedRover
An attorney representing the commander of the American troops involved in the so-called "Haditha massacre" says the military rules of engagement have become so subjective that troops must look over their shoulders before they can fight the enemy. Brian Rooney is with the Thomas More Law Center, which is representing Lieutenant Colonel Jeffrey Chessani, a Marine officer charged with failing to investigate fully the events at Haditha, Al Anbar, Iraq and failing to report a Law of War violation.
Rooney says the Marines involved acted properly during the November 19, 2005, incident that led to the death of 15 Iraqi civilians. "If there's a hostile act against a Marine or hostile intent against a Marine, you can use deadly force to counter that hostile act or hostile intent," he explains.
But unfortunately, sometimes the determination "becomes subjective to who's observing it from the outside [as to] whether or not the Marines acted reasonably or not," the lawyer notes. In these instances, he says, it depends on who is doing the observing.
Ironically, Chessani had an attorney on the scene, who is also in trouble, as "he's been charged himself, Captain Stone, with dereliction of duty and -- I believe -- orders violations," Rooney points out. "So it's out for everybody, this politically charged investigation that has occurred," he says.
An Article 32 hearing for Colonel Chessani is scheduled for March 21. Rooney is confident his client did not do anything wrong. And it is unfair, the Law Center spokesman suggests, to try to judge the reasonableness of the Marines actions after the fact, removed from the context of the situation the soldiers faced in the Haditha incident.
One simply "can't do that," the attorney insists. "You have to go from the mindset of the Marine at the time, with what's going on," he says, "because, ultimately, you may end up killing civilians and you not mean it; but with what's going on in your mind at the time, you could be acting quite reasonably."
Rooney says the military's rules of engagement have become so subjective that it is increasingly difficult for troops to do their job in battle. The Thomas More Law Center , a national public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, announced March 6 that it would be defending Lieutenant Colonel Chessani against the military's charges in what has become a highly politically charged case.
Lt. Col, Chessani's Article 32, the first in trhe Haditha case is 7 days away.
Related recent thread: Hearing set for lieutenant colonel charged in Haditha case, North County Times / March 3, 2007
Let jazusamo, delacoert, or me know if you want on the Haditha Marine Ping List.
George Bush needs to find some courage, before we loose this thing. I am getting more and more disgusted with him each and every day.
HA beat me to it!!!!
You oughta talk with a returning grunt or two. Your jaw will hit the floor.
It's careerist generals ( a tautology) who never ever leave air conditioned offices, JAGs who would be of better use in this war by lawn mowing at the Pentagon, investigators who want to get some scalps for their careers and a Prez who could not lead a starving wolf to a pork chop that have caused grunts to die because they are afraid of making a mistake and being prosecuted. The grunts hesitate and BOOM and BANG, they are dead.
The rules of engagement are literally pages after page long.
The pogue officers will not tell the grunts the rules because they do not want the grunts to hesitate, but the threat of prosecution is routinely mentioned and hangs over these poor bastards every time they go outside the wire without knowing all the rules they are supposed to obey.
Rules of engagement (ROE) proscribed by perfumed princes and politicians have always sucked. In the air over North Vietnam, at one time or another, there were ROE that 1) prohibited attacking anti-aircraft missile sites while they were under construction, 2) prohibited shooting at MiGs while their wheels were down, 3) and prohibited attacking trains staged in towns. Some things that were NEVER allowed were bombing 1) ships delivering war supplies, 2) farm irrigation dikes, 3) the main highway out of China into North Vietnam. It's no fun to risk your life under such rules. I feel for the troops in Iraq.
We place our Marines in near impossible situations, expect them to fight like devil dogs one moment and think like lawyers and social workers the next.
Sounds like a great way to lose.
You don't have a blanking clue what you are talking about. GWB is a da*n fine CINC for every warrior out there. He stands firmly behind our military and understands our goal is victory. Plain and simple.
He cannot micromanage the bureaucracy that thrives within the military (and it most certainly does). He can't wish it away.....
That these Marines are being charged as they are is foolishness and wrong. But they have not been convicted of anything.....There is no action for the President to take right now....except to let the process play out....while staying focused on the bigger picture of the larger WOT (which he is doing everyday).
I full heartedly support these Marines and find their prosecution and disgrace. I hope each are acquitted on all charges.
But lets face some realities here. What we have accomplished in the past 4 1/2 years in this WOT is historically amazing. Since Sept 11th, our enemies have suffered one strategic defeat after another.....we have not suffered one (unless some could argue the 06 election were a self-inflicted one)......but as CINC GWB had done a tremendous job.....under unbelievable pressures and attacks from within our own country.
Regards,
Perhaps to be fair, we should have the judge, jury, and all officers of the court have a reasonable understanding of the conditions. Much like a jury who visits the scene of an alledged crime, they can all grab a rifle and walk down a street in Haditha for a day or two...
Sadly too much truth here at times......The ugly bureaucracy that thrives within the military and State....
How about this rule: "You will not chamber a round until fired upon." That rule of engagement was given to me just prior to my first trip outside the wire in 1968. Fortunately for my mental well being I quickly learned that this rule was regularly ignored. I can still remember how relieved I was hearing the guys ahead of me letting the bolts on their M-16s go forward as we were leaving the perimeter.
Had the men called in an air strike, everyone who is dead would still be dead, but the marines would be manning their posts instead of facing trial.
Maybe Duncan Hunter will suspend the ROE. For sure if he becomes President, he will pardon each and every one of our Haditha Marines. No man should be able to reach the rank of General without serving on the ground in a war zone IMHO.
Precisely what we have been warning of.
Looks like Chessani's atty doesn't have a clue. The rules ofengagement are irrelevant here. false field reports were filed and a false press release regarding the incident was issued based on those false reports. Chessani failed ot investigate the matter. That's what he's changed with. ROE is irrelevant.
God Bless this man for his Courage.
Pray for W and Our Marines
you are exactly right.... if just one of these assh#les would drive to and from a FOA and have his friend and brother blown to goo in front of him... then later that week see a bunch of hajis setting up some wire and boxes by the side of the road with a dad and kid walking around with cell phones as lookouts... then the next night another friend gets waxed...
or maybe he just knows that the enemy is in a house and shooting his friends but has shields of people in front of him or under him...
runs a car towards him filled with women and children... what to do?
die or go to Leavenworth for some R&R...
JAG and the future senatorial and congressional democrat candidates in the Marines, Navy and Army need to pull point or get the f#ck out of the way.
As for the GOP/RNC along WH PR team....We are in full agreement. They have been absolutely pathetic in terms of setting the record straight on issue after issue (regarding the WOT). On telling of our success and why we must stay in this fight. They have been lazy and unfocused in taking on the MSM / DEMs.
I place much more of the blame on RNC/WH PR team then I do with my CINC. He has done a tremendous job in staying focused on victory.
As for asking all American's to join the Armed Services? Nice thought....but the reality is we don't want all American's.....The military isn't for everyone. We want those who have the fortitude to step up on their own (for starters).
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