Posted on 03/08/2007 7:52:41 AM PST by ZGuy
Environmentalists are going to scream until the second coming about any form of energy production we currently use. No nukes, no more drilling, no more dams, now windmills are problematic, etc. They will bitch about ocean wave power (bet on it), and any other "new" form of energy generation until we can come up with a 2" square solar panel that will light up a city and works at night.
http://www.currykerlinger.com/birds.htm
I agree that some people are concerned about bird deaths. I don't agree with the originally posted statements about greenies. I also know that the reports of the numbers of bird deaths are contested. Kennedy is the biggest liberal nimby, but he isn't a greenie, he's a big fat bastard. :-D
ON ANY issue and there will be disagreements given more than two people.
Kennedy is the biggest liberal nimby, but he isn't a greenie, he's a big fat bastard. :-D
You for got big fat DRUNK bastard! :-D
The Kennedys have been fighting windfarms in their backyard tooth and nail.
Yes, nighttime loads are about 60% of daytime loads, so there's truth to what you say. I'd have to run the numbers to see if the system could support 85% of the US vehicle fleet. That seems to be a very high percentage.
Texas is predicting rolling blackouts in 2009 because they just scrapped plans to build coal plants. In the not-too-distant future, I could see calls from energy system operators telling people to curtail load and prevent brownouts -- "please unplug your electric cars and work at home tomorrow"
If wind generation were to become so efficient that it could actually economically replace oil the greenies would discover a host of horrible environmental disasters that would come from it. Their carp is with energy use and production, not so much with the method of its generation. These folks believe in a "sustainable" human population of earth of 500 million or 50 million or some other miniscule number and they believe that any method that can get to that goal is good. Anything that allows an increasing population to thrive or that maintains the present population is Evil.
And you won't see them being the first one's volunteering to leave the planet.
Pure electric cars are never going to be a full fleet replacement. There's one big thing that many Americans do with their cars that the pure electrics simply can't pull off: cross country driving. To do cross country driving you need to be able to refill/recharge your car in 10 minutes or less, there doesn't seem to be anything on the horizon in battery technology that could pull this off. Electrics might be fine for the normal driving condition (though with the way commute times have been growing even that could become problematic), but most people aren't going to want to keep an extra car around just for summer vacation.
Then there's the problem of apartment buildings, especially down South. Plugging your car in overnight sounds great if where you park at home is within a a normal extension cord length of one of your outlets. But there are many places where home and your parking space are a good distance apart. Up North this might not be such a big deal since much of that territory has oil freezing weather and people need to plug their cars in overnight anyway (thus the necessary infrastructure is already in place for an outlet accessable to every residential parking space). But South of the snowline, which is where the US population is shifting to, probably less than half the residents could easily plug their cars in.
Good heavens! You're right and my mistake almost warrants the punishment of being pung to that picture of him on his boat with no shirt on. {wince}
I know, but Kennedys is not the same as greenies. Kennedy isn't a greenie, he's a BFDB.
Just a slight oversight, we don't need that steenking picture!
That's a mercy.
"I read from an article which seemed credible that the existing system is sufficient to recharge 85 percent of USA vehicles every evening. The system is presently cycled down at night when demand is low. I don't know for sure this is true but certainly excess capacity is there."
You're confusing excess capacity with excess energy.
Even if they throttle back up at night it will require energy to keep the turbines going at night, which will in turn use more natural gas and other fuels which they presently burn.
Maybe that's a good trade-off overall but you still aren't getting anything for free out of that scenario.
There are definite sections of America that could switch to pure electric vehicles, and probably 70% of those sections are run by some level of government (postal, local park service, school busses, local police, etc etc). Pretty much any vehicle that absolutely possitively will never go more than 200 miles in a day would be on the list. In many two car families they have an "around town" and "distance" car and pure electric would be fine for the around town (assuming they can plug it in). Primarily I'm talking to the people who say there's an eventuality of all American cars going electric eventually, with the current technology, current infrastructure and current society I just don't see that happening. There would need to be a massive change in the infrastructure (so everybody could plug their cars in whenever they're home), and either a massive jump in the technology (so you could recharge a car in 10 minutes), or a massive change in our society (no one ever driving 300 miles in a day).
"To do cross country driving you need to be able to refill/recharge your car in 10 minutes or less, there doesn't seem to be anything on the horizon in battery technology that could pull this off."
Check out eestor. It may be vapor-ware but they are supposed to be delivering product this year. It is an ultracapacitor with battery like storage. Their big advantage is being an ultracapacitor, it can be charged as fast as you can throw current at it, they claim 500 mile range with 10 minute recharge.
If they can make it that would be the magic bullet electric cars need. Interesting to see what happens when it hits the field. Of course the other question on that is are they pulling that 10 minute charge with something vaguely resembling normal household current? And just what happens to anything else on that circuit when the car is plugged in? But if they can pull it off they've got the better mousetrap by a long shot.
"Even if they throttle back up at night it will require energy to keep the turbines going at night, which will in turn use more natural gas and other fuels which they presently burn.
Maybe that's a good trade-off overall but you still aren't getting anything for free out of that scenario."
Not free but cheaper, it costs money to shut down excess capacity at night then fire it back up in the morning. Usually they try to run coal fired plants 24 hours a day then cover the peak use with NG. If the load were equalized, they could use more coal and less NG, decreasing the cost overall.
To charge that fast, you need more current than standard household.
If the technology works, you would either charge overnight or have one permanently mounted in your garage and the other in your car. The one in the garage would charge the one in the car and would recharge off a standard 220 volt circuit.
A gas (recharge) station would need a unit large enough to ballance out the total power needed over 24 hours and would have an industrial connection to the grid.
If it works as advertised, electric cars would truely perform as well as gasoline for the majority of drivers.
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