Posted on 03/04/2007 9:45:43 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
My friends, my sister, and I were hanging out at a gay bar in West Hollywood last night (yes, really) because you can buy $1 draft beers during happy hour, and my little sister can flirt with men who won't actually try to take her home. She just moved out to Hollywood to live with me and, being only 29, she still likes to party. I'm the over-protective type, so I go with her and glower at anyone who gets too close.
Because it was a gay bar, all the men I met there were... oh, what's the word... gay, yes, that's it. I fell into a very interesting discussion with a 60 year old man who looked like a cross between Leonard Cohen, a biker, and a hippie. Long gray hair, black cowboy hat, wire rimmed glasses, big belt buckle. He has been "partners" with another fellow for two years now. His partner favors sequins and rhinestones, and whenever he meets a woman, he mulls over what movie star she resembles. It's very flattering. After a few drinks, I apparently look like Rachel Weiss. (I mean, after YOU have a few drinks, not me.)
Anyway. I was talking to this fellow, Michael, and I discovered the following: He has been an electrical engineer for 25 years. He was in a band. He was in the Air Force for at least six years, did a tour in Vietnam, one in Japan, and one in Oklahoma. He got out because they were going to station him next in Turkey and, frankly, the muslim world makes him a little uneasy.
He had one daughter before he came out of the closet. He recalls giving her a small allowance and then teaching her to budget with it. He emphasized education and sounds like he was a pretty tough dad. He thinks kids today are growing apathetic, lazy, spoiled, and he is worrying about what the overall declining work ethic is going to do to this country.
He thinks if the politicians would get out of the way and let the military do its job, we could handle the Islamofascists "immediately." September 11 didn't make him cry, it made him mad. He's still fiery-eyed about it.
And taxes today! Don't even get him started about how his hard-earned money is going to support an ever-larger stream of illegal aliens who come to this country to take advantage and give little back. He loves his country, his Harley... and some guy named Tony who wears sequins. I am not making this up.
He considers himself rather apolitical because he doesn't pay attention to prevaling political trends enough to know that he is unconsciously fairly conservative.
Now here is my fear: He and many others like him will be repelled back into knee-jerk DNC voting patterns because his perception of conservative thought will be influenced by things like Ann Coulter's blaring comment at CPAC suggesting that John Edwards is... oh, what's the word she used... I can't remember right now but it was one of those words that suggests that she, the uberconservative, feels that gay-baiting epithets are respectable political discourse.
Now, before you say anything, I know what some Freepers will think.
1) If my new buddies are gay, they are simply not the stuff of which conservatism is made. "Here we go," you might sigh. "Another one trying to convince us that gays are just like you and me but for one little, tiny difference." No, I'm not saying that. But conservatism... or at least, a willingness to vote conservative, can come in many guises, and Christianity or any other such moral code is only one. Many of us came to conservatism through Ayn Rand's writings, or through an admiration for our Founding Fathers. Some of us simply grew up and realized that liberal approaches are enabling disasters that encourage humanity to sink ever further into dependence, envy, and mediocrity.
If your conservatism stems from a philosophical or religious conviction that homosexuality flouts, please consider that the salvation of souls is a separate matter from voting for politicians who take our security seriously. Please do not shun or belittle those who might potentially come to agree with you on so many points, simply because they differ from you on this one. We do not want gays, feminists, et al, to be one issue voters. Let us not be one-issue discriminators. I know we would all like for others to live conservatively. But let us not reject the opportunity to encourage them to begin by voting conservatively.
2) The other protest that I have seen already, on different threads, is as follows: Ann is a private citizen, she can say what she wants, only a fool would think that Mitt Romney or Duncan Hunter feels the same way. But I submit to you that this is what I call "insider thinking." Of course, WE know whose stance is what... we are familiar with the nuances of conservative thought. We read up on politics every single day. But compare how an outsider such as Michael (and glittery Tony) views the conservative world: much like we view the muslim world. When a mad mullah or bomb-laden extremist foams at the mouth about decimating Israel and America, we look to the rest of the muslim world as if to say politely "And do you agree?" When all we hear are crickets chirping (and a few bombs going off prematurely because some Palestinian's cell phone got pinged) we notice. And we think, ah. I see. You agree.
If we do not agree, we do indeed have the responsibility to say so, as conservatives.
In fact, at the end of the evening an incident occured that captures this second point nicely. A very intoxicated young man with a penchant for chanting hiphop lyrics in people's faces, and flicking his lighter perilously close to women's noses, tried to put his arm around me. I had already developed a dislike for this one, and gave him a slight elbow while I stepped away. Outraged, he pursued me and I gave him a good shove. My sister told the bouncer and the other guys gathered round and chimed in their outrage. Throw that guy out! The bouncer threw the guy out.
For the next ten minutes, gay men were coming up to me anxiously: Are you alright? He's gone now, don't worry. He was a jerk. I don't like him either. I hope you aren't upset. We aren't all like that. Are you sure you're alright?
They instinctively came to reassure me, knowing that as an outsider, I could not distinguish between them unless they made known their stances. And Tony said, "I may be gay, but I'm still a man. Woman are supposed to be protected, you know?"
I am not on a crusade to get other Freepers to love gays and hang out in West Hollywood with me. There isn't enough parking there as is. And I do not despise Ann Coulter, I like most of what she's said over the years. She's funny, she's witty, she makes connections that dazzle me because I never even noticed them till she pointed them out.
But I disapprove of her use of that word. I rate it almost with the N word if only in terms of its ability to project hostility, belittlement, and a deliberate attempt to hurt. I cannot tell anyone else what to do, but if anyone, gay or not, asks me what *I* thought of her remark, I'm going to tell her: Not all conservatives have the attitude that gays are not to be respected. I disapprove of Ann's use of that word, even for comedy purposes, and I hope it does not scare all the Michaels and Tonys into voting DNC just because they think that the DNC, at least, cares about how they feel.
No, we'd still look, um, reidiculous. This isn't about disapproval of the homosexual lifestyle, or "fudgepacking" as it's affectionately known. It's about maintaining some level of class and personal bearing. I'd go on about how leaders of the conservative movement should conduct themselves with class and proper bearing, but I have a funny feeling you'd look at it like it was written in Mandarin Chinese. Just take my word on it, it's important to many of us that the average American voter doesn't look at conservatives like we're the Taliban in, *ahem*...drag.
Aside from the language, it's a cowardly way to go about calling someone a name. If she thinks Edwards is a "faggot", she should come out and say it, not hide behind Clintonesque phrasing and word parsing. I don't care if that's how she feels, any more than I care about John Kerry's little joke either. If that's how they feel, then that's how they feel. I just wish that people would step up to the plate and defend themselves for what they are, not sidestep behind legalistic defenses.
As to your last point, I don't really care if you see workplace etiquette as Stalinism or not. The actor could have quit his job and sought a less sensitive employer instead, an option that Uncle Joe generally didn't offer. I feel his pain, though. I can't use the terms "whore", "slut" or "semen vaccum" in company correspondence without pissing off my Maoist supervisor and his Trotskyite boss. Send help!
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
"If you have to explain a joke..... then the audience is pretty stupid."
At least in this case.
Though a lot of people here are pretending not to understand so they can exercise their self-righteous muscle.
LOL, good one, guess we're going to lose the 300lbs female vote now. LOL, and thats alot of vote to lose.
No, I disagree. Free speech will not save us from the evils being brought about by unmitigated illegal immigration, the increasing tendency toward socialism, and the decreasing will to fight islamofascism.
Imagine if Obama wins. Imagine what will happen to our country. Will it really be a comfort to know that at least Ann Coulter got to say "faggot" before we lost it all?
I don't buy that at all. I can see no point in going into gay bars to preach conservatism. I don't think they hang out in those places to talk politics. They hang out to meet guys to go home with. Those that are politically savvy, know the score. I don't think hanging at the gay bar is going to turn up too many saviors for Homeland Security and immigration issues. The wealthy ones may care about taxes. These types are probably Republican voters. That is if their taxes are more important than pushing gay rights and wedded bliss with their honey.
No, they ignored her point and decided to attack her instead.
And if Ann had never made any comment which could have hurt anyone's feelings, journalists would simply make something up and attack her with that. So, we might as well say what we want to say.
Where I went to highschool the boys used that word in a derogatory manner to each other all the time. I thought then it wasn't nice and still do. We were not even permitted use of that and other vulgar words in the privacy of our own home. At the very least, it is a word that doesn't need to be publicly uttered at CPAC.
If the gays are so tolerant and educated, why are they so up in arms over the comment that has been so famously taken out of context? Because they have made up their minds and don't give a damn about us, our values and mores. I am not going to throw my pearls before swine...and that comes from the Bible...you know, the book that our country used as a basis for our country's beliefs..
Where were all those people moaning about Ann's comment, even changing its meaning, when she has been slandered - vicious and false comments have been made about her repeatedly, for example, by one female radio talk show host who is obsessed with her?
"Imagine if Obama wins. Imagine what will happen to our country. Will it really be a comfort to know that at least Ann Coulter got to say "faggot" before we lost it all?"
Maybe you should be thinking about rehab.
This trauma has driven you around the bend.
I agree completly. But what to do about it from a government perspective?
I can oppose abortion because it is murder. How do I oppose a homosexual lifestyle, other than from a religious prespective? (Which I do, by the way.)
If we walk down the path of a 'proper' lifestyle, we join the libs in banning smoking, transfats, using energy, etc.
Are the homosexuals simply in the "pursuit of happiness" as they define it?
I never heard it. What's my penalty?
Is it PC speech that keeps the men in congress (on most occasions) fom shouting vulgarities at one another?
Politics totally aside, I will agree with you as a gay bar being a great place to go for a terrific evening (and this is from a hetero 40 year old woman who has been married for going on 23 years to the same man.) My sister and I have gone a few times. You can find people who will actually carry on an interesting conversation for the evening. Men will dance with you and sometimes buy you a drink and not expect you to go home with them just for the privilege. You're totally safe and protected, much more so than from straight men in a 'regular' bar. I've seen much worse behavior from straight married people in bars than I have there.
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>>No, I disagree. Free speech will not save us from the evils being brought about by unmitigated illegal immigration, the increasing tendency toward socialism, and the decreasing will to fight islamofascism<<
We have a saying in physics that could apply here - "Necessary but not sufficient."
Free speech, yours, mine, Ann Coulter's and everybody else's is critical but certainly not the only thing needed to to deal with our problems.
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