Posted on 03/04/2007 9:45:43 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
My friends, my sister, and I were hanging out at a gay bar in West Hollywood last night (yes, really) because you can buy $1 draft beers during happy hour, and my little sister can flirt with men who won't actually try to take her home. She just moved out to Hollywood to live with me and, being only 29, she still likes to party. I'm the over-protective type, so I go with her and glower at anyone who gets too close.
Because it was a gay bar, all the men I met there were... oh, what's the word... gay, yes, that's it. I fell into a very interesting discussion with a 60 year old man who looked like a cross between Leonard Cohen, a biker, and a hippie. Long gray hair, black cowboy hat, wire rimmed glasses, big belt buckle. He has been "partners" with another fellow for two years now. His partner favors sequins and rhinestones, and whenever he meets a woman, he mulls over what movie star she resembles. It's very flattering. After a few drinks, I apparently look like Rachel Weiss. (I mean, after YOU have a few drinks, not me.)
Anyway. I was talking to this fellow, Michael, and I discovered the following: He has been an electrical engineer for 25 years. He was in a band. He was in the Air Force for at least six years, did a tour in Vietnam, one in Japan, and one in Oklahoma. He got out because they were going to station him next in Turkey and, frankly, the muslim world makes him a little uneasy.
He had one daughter before he came out of the closet. He recalls giving her a small allowance and then teaching her to budget with it. He emphasized education and sounds like he was a pretty tough dad. He thinks kids today are growing apathetic, lazy, spoiled, and he is worrying about what the overall declining work ethic is going to do to this country.
He thinks if the politicians would get out of the way and let the military do its job, we could handle the Islamofascists "immediately." September 11 didn't make him cry, it made him mad. He's still fiery-eyed about it.
And taxes today! Don't even get him started about how his hard-earned money is going to support an ever-larger stream of illegal aliens who come to this country to take advantage and give little back. He loves his country, his Harley... and some guy named Tony who wears sequins. I am not making this up.
He considers himself rather apolitical because he doesn't pay attention to prevaling political trends enough to know that he is unconsciously fairly conservative.
Now here is my fear: He and many others like him will be repelled back into knee-jerk DNC voting patterns because his perception of conservative thought will be influenced by things like Ann Coulter's blaring comment at CPAC suggesting that John Edwards is... oh, what's the word she used... I can't remember right now but it was one of those words that suggests that she, the uberconservative, feels that gay-baiting epithets are respectable political discourse.
Now, before you say anything, I know what some Freepers will think.
1) If my new buddies are gay, they are simply not the stuff of which conservatism is made. "Here we go," you might sigh. "Another one trying to convince us that gays are just like you and me but for one little, tiny difference." No, I'm not saying that. But conservatism... or at least, a willingness to vote conservative, can come in many guises, and Christianity or any other such moral code is only one. Many of us came to conservatism through Ayn Rand's writings, or through an admiration for our Founding Fathers. Some of us simply grew up and realized that liberal approaches are enabling disasters that encourage humanity to sink ever further into dependence, envy, and mediocrity.
If your conservatism stems from a philosophical or religious conviction that homosexuality flouts, please consider that the salvation of souls is a separate matter from voting for politicians who take our security seriously. Please do not shun or belittle those who might potentially come to agree with you on so many points, simply because they differ from you on this one. We do not want gays, feminists, et al, to be one issue voters. Let us not be one-issue discriminators. I know we would all like for others to live conservatively. But let us not reject the opportunity to encourage them to begin by voting conservatively.
2) The other protest that I have seen already, on different threads, is as follows: Ann is a private citizen, she can say what she wants, only a fool would think that Mitt Romney or Duncan Hunter feels the same way. But I submit to you that this is what I call "insider thinking." Of course, WE know whose stance is what... we are familiar with the nuances of conservative thought. We read up on politics every single day. But compare how an outsider such as Michael (and glittery Tony) views the conservative world: much like we view the muslim world. When a mad mullah or bomb-laden extremist foams at the mouth about decimating Israel and America, we look to the rest of the muslim world as if to say politely "And do you agree?" When all we hear are crickets chirping (and a few bombs going off prematurely because some Palestinian's cell phone got pinged) we notice. And we think, ah. I see. You agree.
If we do not agree, we do indeed have the responsibility to say so, as conservatives.
In fact, at the end of the evening an incident occured that captures this second point nicely. A very intoxicated young man with a penchant for chanting hiphop lyrics in people's faces, and flicking his lighter perilously close to women's noses, tried to put his arm around me. I had already developed a dislike for this one, and gave him a slight elbow while I stepped away. Outraged, he pursued me and I gave him a good shove. My sister told the bouncer and the other guys gathered round and chimed in their outrage. Throw that guy out! The bouncer threw the guy out.
For the next ten minutes, gay men were coming up to me anxiously: Are you alright? He's gone now, don't worry. He was a jerk. I don't like him either. I hope you aren't upset. We aren't all like that. Are you sure you're alright?
They instinctively came to reassure me, knowing that as an outsider, I could not distinguish between them unless they made known their stances. And Tony said, "I may be gay, but I'm still a man. Woman are supposed to be protected, you know?"
I am not on a crusade to get other Freepers to love gays and hang out in West Hollywood with me. There isn't enough parking there as is. And I do not despise Ann Coulter, I like most of what she's said over the years. She's funny, she's witty, she makes connections that dazzle me because I never even noticed them till she pointed them out.
But I disapprove of her use of that word. I rate it almost with the N word if only in terms of its ability to project hostility, belittlement, and a deliberate attempt to hurt. I cannot tell anyone else what to do, but if anyone, gay or not, asks me what *I* thought of her remark, I'm going to tell her: Not all conservatives have the attitude that gays are not to be respected. I disapprove of Ann's use of that word, even for comedy purposes, and I hope it does not scare all the Michaels and Tonys into voting DNC just because they think that the DNC, at least, cares about how they feel.
Yeah, dear old dad, sitting in a gay bar, dressed up like a dime store cowboy, looking to s*** somebody's d***. Let's give him the father of the year award.
Anyone else's dad doing that last night?
Why did you post this in the religion section?
I have deep suspicions about any Freeper that hangs out in gay bars. Period.
Ann's not stupid so I'm putting it down to some calculated move. On the other hand, words are merely words.
There are smiling bank robbers who treat everyone they rob with some measure of outward respect...they are still as immoral as the ones who curse the people they rob and cuff them with their handgun.
The Founding Fathers you speak of were, for the most part, virtuous and moral men whose morality was based on Christian principles. They would have probably flogged openly homsexual individuals amongst them because they took the teachings seriously...not because they hated the individual, but because they were wise enough to recogonize what certain life-styles and behavior patterns do to individuals and societies.
The fact is, gay life styles tear down the traditional chrsitian moral standard amongst us, the family, and the society. In addition, they are unbelievable dangerous to the people who participate in them. Any serious study of the health consequences asscoiated with that life-style will bear this out. And, though I do not know of official studies that bear this out, I do know of friends on the police force in various cities who tell me that among the worst crime they come across on a genral basis, delving into out and out mayhem, come out of that community.
So, for me, this issue along with abortion and a two or three others like immigration, gun control, and national defense are all single issue for me. An individual for whom I vote will have to get them all right. All are indespensable to our contiunued prosperity, peace, and liberty and I will vote accordingly.
I do not have to be hateful to make these pronouncements or statements, but I am wholly committed to them and firm in these convictions.
There are a bazillion other issues of substance, none of which are effected by Ann's remark. Like her written remarks regarding the 9/11 widows, this one has been siezed upon and amplified as if folks concerned about the issues will change their minds. By and large they won't, and if they do their convictions eslewhere might as well be baseless. We don't expect apologies from the left when they hurl insults. Why should we expect them from the right?
Discussing politics in a bar, especially with strangers, is never a good idea.
Did I post this in the religion section?? I thought I chose "general interest" when I composed it. I'll ping the moderator and ask him to move it. Sorry about that.
Actually, we DO expect more from the left. When an extremist compares Bush to Hitler, for instance, if other liberals do not publicly decry the remark, we assume they agree.
But you can disagree with homosexuality without deliberately setting off their worse fears. My point is, many of them could be induced to vote for the same person you vote for, if they were not afraid that our hostility to them will be detrimental to their well-being if the candidate of our choice were in power.
It isn't my usual venue. This was my second time there and I'd rather hang out at a nice restaurant up on Sunset, but, as I said, I tend to want to stick with my sister whenever I can. And she, unfortunately, is not a Freeper.
Did you read the rest of my essay or just post after the first paragraph?
Did you ask anyone directly what they thought about Coulter's comment? Or are you assuming they will all be offended? I'm curious - not challenging you.
I used to talk to my gay uncle about this kind of thing when I worked for him as a teen during summers in San Francisco.
It came up mostly because my dad is fun-loving biker and a slur-a-minute kind of man, and because he's of the thinking that people are too sensitive about it all: he even has a special nickname for my hubby based on his 2 main ethnicities and that he uses when he's in an especially good loving mood. At risk of being banned by someone who thinks this is terribly offensive: it's McWop.
My gay uncle and his gay friends (oh, and the prostitutes that worked up and down the street outside the business) could have cared less about the slurs. Whether a straight friend or a stranger called them queer or what not, they enjoyed the attention. I do remember they preferred some terms over others: like queen and queer. As for Ann's word - that is what they called each other with a wink and a smile. It was all very eye-opening to say the least.
And of course, this isn't to say that ALL gays have thick skin. Some types (regardless of sexual orientation) are offended by EVERYTHING, I've learned. Like Rosie!
An interesting read. I have absolutely no problem with Annie's remarks because I know she called no one any names. Quite to the contrary, she was illustrating the hypocrisy of PC.
I imagine most homosexuals already recognize this as well...
I'm not calling for Ann to be muzzled, but I do think conservatives can make our points without sinking to middle-school slams. My opinion is that serious conservatives would do well to distance themselves from Ann's remark.
I do not and will not call it "normal". I do not support it, and am against it as a matter of course. Homsexual unions, homsexual advocacy, recognizing gays as an official sexual orientation and laws asssociated witht that, are all part and parcel of the same problem.
I do not say these things hatefully no more than I hate anyone else with what I consider to be severe emotiaonla or mental problems. If there behoavior becomes detreimental to society, then measures must bne taken to address that danger.
Today, our society, and many politicians in particular, do not want to admit the self evident and therefore rather than addressing a problem, they are being cajoled, bribed, and sweet talked into calling something bad, good or normal...or what's worse, as politicians, many are pandering to a problem simply to garner votes. It does a terrible disservice to society as a whole, and to those who are part of the life style and most adversely affected by it.
So, I do not hate the individuals, but I am firmly against the life style and see it as destructive to the very fabric of our society and therefore our peace, well being, and ultimately our liberty.
I am sure such statements will make people involved in that life style uncomfortable, particularly if their aim is to be accepted as and integrated into normal society in any case.
I read the whole thing and I disagree with your conclusions.
So exposing your sister to a lifestyle that lowers your life expectancy 20 years for cheap drinks doesn't bother you?? Perhaps you should stop throwing stones in that glass condo.
Pray for W and Our Troops
I did not say you were hateful.
All I call for is for conservatives not to deliberately alienate gays who might be persuaded at least to help defend our country.
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