Posted on 02/12/2007 2:00:06 PM PST by Red6
BERLIN, Germany (Reuters) -- A German court on Monday ordered the release of Brigitte Mohnhaupt, a former member of the Red Army Faction (RAF) who has spent 24 years in prison for her involvement in multiple kidnappings and murders in the 1970s. The decision, which came after a request by Mohnhaupt for early release, is likely to cause a storm in the country, notably because she has expressed no remorse for a murderous RAF campaign which shook West Germany's new democracy to its core. The ruling comes as President Horst Koehler considers a pardon for Mohnhaupt's former RAF colleague Christian Klar, who has also spent the past 24 years behind bars. "This is not a pardon, rather a decision that is based on specific legal considerations," the court in Stuttgart said in a statement. "The decision for probation was reached based on the determination that no security risk exists."
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
BS. She's a killer and as a killer she was convicted and punished.
She's seen her punishment - nwo she's free. Wether we appreachiate it or not doesn't matter.
Either you have rules, values and justice or you don't have them. That makes the difference between a banana republic and a civilized country.
Yea right, respect:
Bush Hitler
Bush Cowboy
No blood for oil
Locust Capitalists
Hegomoniale Weltmacht
and and and (all written in your well informed Spiegel BTW)
--
Bottom line, she's a terrorist who was personally involved with four murders and a kidnapping, was a leader of the organization, never even said that what she did was wrong, nor feels remorse today, was in her 30s when she committed these acts in a planned and premeditated fashion based on a political motivation. Better yet, she had previously been incarcerated and been let go on parole, which she violated, and you today hide behind all sorts of BS pretending as if it's OK that she be released after 24 years.
*** If you respect a state, you don't let people like that make a mockery of your laws. If you respect your republic, you dont let people who openly stated and acted out in a way to destroy it go free. If you respect the victims, you don't let a person like this out, EVER!
I suggest you read a bit about the Weimar Republic and how this state was sabotaged and brought down to its knees by thugs before you talk about respecting a Republic or valuing a Constitution.
ah that was your point.
I didn't really guess u were coherent with this thread.
Do you even care what we do with our terror grannies ?
Yeah it's not all about waving star spangled banners here.
But you are not doing the Bundesdance either are ya ?
I apprechiate the actual tendencies to close ties again with the US (on governmental base) and vice versa.
How about you ?
Do not overdraw. You know that this is definitly wrong. Most Germans know their national anthem and most Germans got comprehensive information about our constitution, the Grundgesetz in school.
It is indeed true that Germans do not tend to nationalism since the MSM tells the German people that we made bad experiences with it in our history. This is wrong because it was not the (positive) nationalism that was evil in Germany from 33 - 45, it was the nazi ideology. Therefore I for my part understand myself as a German patriot with a positive nationalistic background that is no weird or agressive religion to me. Germany has to work on numerous issues. I.e. the Grundgesetz is not perfect and there are many things that could be changed to make it better. Nevertheless I love my county by heart, I would never ever betray it and I follow the rules.
Besides - I recieved a really excellent entering guide into the Grundgesetz in high-school during the mid-80ties.
I understand your anger very well and I am for sure not the only German who is against any mercy concerning Mohnhaupt or Klar. Nevertheless you have to understand that it is not you that has a right to judge over those people since those attacks happend in Germany on German soil. That is simply our party. We Germans had good reasons to abolish capital punishment after WWII. There is for sure no country were more "judicial errors" happend in last century than in Germany. It is still better to feed all those moronics than to execute one innocent person. Personally I am really not sure if i.e. the American justice did not made some horrible mistakes in the past with some criminal cases. As far as I know our penology does not see retaliation as important as it is in the US. In fact it is not important at all in our system. The aim of our criminal law is to provide safety for the public and to correct criminal offenders. Other countries other attitudes.
Personally I would take out capital punishment in rare cases on certain persons if they are dangerous and guilty in the same time. I.e. I think the hanging of Saddam Hussein was just. Maybe it is a myth (I do not think so) that Baader, Meinhof and Ensslin were executed by our gouvernment. Nevertheless I think that this (if it was the case) was just too, since their existance posed a thread to innocent people. The existance of contemporary Mohnhaupt and Klar does not pose a thread anymore. Therefore I do not see a reason to execute them. Nevertheless they would die in jail if it would be my decision. There is no excuse for what they have done.
"The average German has no concept of his own Constitution nor even knows his national anthem."
The avarge German is of no interest for you. You've never listenend to one.
I did a summary on your answers (see above) ;-)
''The argument that we should "lock them up and throw away the keys" never seems to hold in the long run, as Mohnhaupt and others prove''
Indeed very true. And I would still like to know the percentage of the populace in Germany, which support this release. Most people I have spoken to recently are not in favor of it. The police union and the Schleyer family don`t seem to be alone in this issue. It looks more like the 'Schicki-Micki' lefty elitist have used (abused ?)their power to release her ( and expect Christian Klar soon to follow) on the first possible date. It´s a shame.
As I already said in my #27 it is a question of different values in our penology systems. It was a very cognizant decision not to execute people after 1949 anymore in (west) Germany and this decision is even part of our constitution, the Grundgesetz.
Why are people not executed in Germany? Answer: Retaliation is -in sharp difference to the American legal system- no important value for itself anymore.
The families of Schleyer or your family -in this case- only can take minimal influence on a lawsuit as a joint plaintiff (Nebenkläger).
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebenkl%C3%A4ger
You say that capital punishment in the US is done for societys sake.
Same could be said about the German refusal to do it. Since we follow different values and we are for good reasons afraid of wrongful convictions it is not part of our penalization anymore. Our society probably would enter a major crisis if it would be obvious that the German State killed somebody innocent again after 1945.
As I said - different countries, different attitudes. Therefore it can be right for us what is wrong for you. We have a different history and a different socialization than Americans.
I do not say that capital punishment is always wrong and Baader, Meinhof and Ensslin were probably executed by my own gouvernment (as you probably know the German gouvernment speaks of suicide* - I can not say which version of the story is wrong or right) in a rightful decision to prevent other left terrorists from more blackmail after the highjack of the Lufthansajet "Landshut" in 1977. The existance of those terrorists posed a eminent danger to other people and therefore it was good to get rid of them.
The real problem in Germany is not the absence of capital punishment, it is the inconsequence of legal practice. If a life sentence would be really a life sentence I would be perfectly content. It is indeed unbearable that Mohnhaupt is able to make a business out of her disgusting life. I share this point of view with you.
* If it happened the way I think (we all know that Strauss suggested to execute as many terrorists as the highjackers of the Landshut kill passengers) is was done for societys sake. One one hand our gouvernment of 1977 refused to change our fundamental values in our penalization system because of this isolated incident, on the other hand it was nessecary to protect our fellow citizens from the terrorist threat.
Just for the sake of completeness a funny interview with Irmgard Möller about the 17. Oktober 1977 on a communist German Website:
http://www.rote-hilfe.de/rhz/rhz199704/rhz497001.html
In a few month you will be able to read the autobiography of Mohnhaupt here.
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