But I don't see how this:
does any good to our allied effort.
Posted on 02/06/2007 12:31:04 AM PST by Brit_Guy
The Sun is claiming copyright so I will only post a link.
It is to a cockpit video of an A10 attack which sadly led to the death of a UK soldier. It makes sobering viewing.
First - clearly there has been a massive breech of security in this video being leaked. Someone is going to get in major trouble for that.
Second - Regardless of that, it has been a massive bone of contention on this side of the pond that this tape was not released to the UK for the inquest into the dead soldiers death - for background reading on the case see:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6333853.stm
- I watched it without predjudice. This incident follows similar ones earlier in Iraq and in Afghanistan. Sadly, Serving UK soldiers I know are as scared of US A10 reservists as they are "insurgents".
It is a classic blue on blue, in the pump of battle young men desperate for a contact see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear and engage despite several factors that should have had them hold off.
Were they negligent in their duty? On the evidence of the video alone (I have no more background to what they had faced that day) - yes.
Where they *criminally* negligent? - I honestly think not. They were out there doing it, and some of their training failed them in the moment. God help us all if we were tested in the same cirumstances - some of us would do the right thing, some the wrong - most of us on this board haven't put ourselves there to face such a test - they have. They will live with that split second poor judgement forever.
The ground controller has at least as much to answer for - but then he can only relay the info he has - it is unclear from the video whether our boys had notified the relevant authorites of their location. An important question for the inquest.
Should the US have released this video to the Inquest? In my opinion yes. Inquests are more for the family, and the family deserve to know.
Bless all those involved in this sorry truth of war. Particarly the brave UK troops on the ground - including the chap who jumped back into the burning vehicle to pull out his wounded freind as they returned for the second pass.
Sad - but I'm interested in freepers thoughts.
Doh - forgot the link:
Here
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007060133,00.html
And the unfortunate fact remains that when US military assets represent the vast majority of the firepower in theatre, most of the mishaps are going to be made by us. It's a statistical inevitability.
We agonize over those we lose to friendly fire as well, and the repercussions of each one reverbates through our own society.
I don't think US soldiers are any more likely than any other country's military to make errors of this nature. Certainly, no true American is proud of the events depicted in this video, and we sincerely regret those unfortunate times when we give our allies a black eye.
First - clearly there has been a massive breech of security in this video being leaked. Someone is going to get in major trouble for that.
Highly likely on both counts. It's dead certain there will be an investigation.
Second - Regardless of that, it has been a massive bone of contention on this side of the pond that this tape was not released to the UK for the inquest into the dead soldiers death
So on one hand it was a massive breach of security to release the tape, so the tape should have been released again only this time officially. Nothing like compounding a possibly illegal act with a serious mistake.
Sadly, Serving UK soldiers I know are as scared of US A10 reservists as they are "insurgents".
How do you know this? Has there been some kind of survey of British troops or are there just one or two of your mates saying this? The A-10 is a very frightening weapon. It's supposed to be.
It is a classic blue on blue, in the pump of battle young men desperate for a contact see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear and engage despite several factors that should have had them hold off.
Fratricide is a constant danger in a war zone. It has always been thus.
Were they negligent in their duty? On the evidence of the video alone (I have no more background to what they had faced that day) - yes.
Then perhaps we should wait for the results of the official investigation before we pronuonce judgement.
Where they *criminally* negligent?
See above.
Should the US have released this video to the Inquest? In my opinion yes.
But just above you said it was a serious breach of security to release this at all. How do you square those two opposing views?
Inquests are more for the family, and the family deserve to know.
Not if it's classified for some good operational reasons they don't.
L
But I don't see how this:
does any good to our allied effort.
it is a tragedy when blue on blue events occur. it make you feel bad inside. sadly, and unfortunately, things like this happen in a war.
then one also thinks about the release of any highly classified information that can come out when a release like this is made before it can be protected.
I don't think it was any U.S. service personnel (contrary to the Sun's reporting) that released this, but someone in the MoD, probably associated with the inquest. On the other hand, maybe this is another one of MI6 Oleg Gordievsky's tricks. He is the one who has been pumping the media with disinformation concerning the Litvinenko poisoning.
Sad. The one A-10 pilot even mentions the orange identifying markers on the "target" before attacking.
Our alliance with Great Britain and other coalition members is vitally important - it's the only thing that is saving the world from going to blazes. I have the utmost respect for the British forces, and sincere condolences for everyone affected by this tragedy.
There's a lot of background to this. This is just the latest in a long series in which the US authorities have adamantly maintained a policy of non-cooperation with these British inquests on blue-on-blue deaths. This has been puzzling and saddening to America's friends over here. One has to ask what there is to lose? At the most, some bad publicity should individual or systematic failures be acknowledged - but that can hardly be worse than the bad publicity already generated by the fact of the non-cooperation, which as you can imagine the America-haters in the British media make a meal of every time this happens; and over the last week the coroner's public frustration over the refusal to release this tape has been a major story here. There's no question of individuals being named or having to appear, as written statements by anonymous servicemen ('soldier A, soldier B' etc) are usual in similar inquests where only British are involved. And I find it difficult to give much credence to the excuse that sensitive intelligence is involved, when we're dealing with a several-years old incident with old technology (A10s are hardly cutting edge!).
The end result? Grieving widows of America's friends who never know the full truth of their husband's death...and in this case, a hero who put his life on line to rescue his comrades from the wreck, but can't be given the highest honour for gallantry because, ironically, it wasn't 'in the face of the enemy'.
My guess is that the root cause of this otherwise inexplicable inflexibility is not some reason of high policy, but rather bureaucratic military lawyers simply applying the rules because they've always been the rules, and not raising their eyes above the paperwork. Time for somebody to show a little imagination here...and, dare I say it, a little compassion.
It's the SUN.
There are loads of brilliant things to find on the island.
The Sun isn't one of them.
horrible....
.....but it has happened in every war when some sort of missle is discharged at what is thought to be the enemy....it is called friendly fire and it is a cost of war that will probably always be.
Too true, I'll never forgive them for the Hillsborough tragedy coverage. The Scum.
These pilots sound devastated at hearing it's a blue on blue...weeping no less. I can't imagine ever being in that position. I think the only question is whether this video should have been released to the inquest...
Why did you feel the need to post this? Your actions are more of a Code Pink move than something I would expect on Free Republic.
nearly all reserve pilots were previously active duty pilots. These guys probably had more cockpit hours than any of the coalition pilots in theater.
They followed the process from what I could tell. Either the Brits were in the wrong area or the intel was wrong. War is chaotic and there was obviously no intent or negligence. The only reason this story is in this bird cage liner of a paper is they are looking for anything to make America look bad. Perhaps they should turn their attention to the radicals inside the UK.
I think we would all like to face blue-on-blue fratricide - and the difficult media coverage thereof - like men, rather than pretend it hadn't happened. I'm sorry to seem terse, but having a go at Brit_guy for bringing up a point of serious news is not the way to go with this.
"The end result? Grieving widows of America's friends who never know the full truth of their husband's death...and in this case, a hero who put his life on line to rescue his comrades from the wreck, but can't be given the highest honour for gallantry because, ironically, it wasn't 'in the face of the enemy'."
What nonsense is this. She knew it was friendly fire didn't she? What value does putting the video out add? Would a widow want to watch a video of the car crash their loved one died in?
Releasing videos like this reveal tactics and procedures we use. The enemy can use this to find a weakness or to emulate.
"...She said last night: “I’m very relieved this is being made public at long last. I can’t believe these pilots can discuss what they’re doing so casually when these are the last moments of my husband’s life.”..."
She cannot believe it because she has never been in combat. My condolences to her, but she is being used as a bitter tool by the Guardian.
Big surprise there. Foster outrage at the plight of the poor, mistreated common soldier, who on top of that is treated like a second-hand stepchild by their arrogant American abusers. People at the Guardian have not a whit of compassion or consideration for the soldier, he is simply a useful tool for their anti-American, anti-war bias. The cynicism really ticks me off.
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