Harley strikes York plant

York Daily Record ^ | 1/31/07

[nowings]

Jan 31, 2007 — About 98 percent of Harley's nearly 2,800 unionized workers have voted to strike. The contract expires at 12:01 a.m. Friday, and picketing will begin at that time, union representatives said.

Discussions on the proposed labor contract began at 9 a.m. today in the Toyota Arena at the York Expo Center, where the members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Local 175 met.

[-YYZ-]

This is my current bike, btw:

And my previous bike:

[Melas]

How should hey have dressed?

[martin_fierro]

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[spunkets]

Yer late.

[killjoy]

We had a great turnout...some 1100 bikes. The ride consists of about 12 miles of surface street riding approx. 7 to 10mph...in a continuous long line of bikes

Riding along that way makes it easier to pick up the pieces that fall off the bike in front of them. There must have been one hell of a used part sale after that. ;)

[HOTTIEBOY]

Actually the guy spent $20k altogether. $17k for the bike and $3k in mods. Common sense tells me that when someone explains how much money they have spent on their bike; divide that number in half and you usually get the right figure. Little to their knowledge, they are actually incriminating themselves and their bikes by exaggerating the price and displaying results that do not justify the money.
They say they have a bike with $3k in mods that is just sitting there. In actuality it won't pull a greasy string out of a cat's ass and that is just the type of image-without-substance that I have come to expect from alot of V-Twinners.
But you are right. The majority just want to ride. I have no problem with these folks. Why, I have a few friends that ride VTwins that have no idea how many horsepower their bike has and they don't care. They just want to hop on and go get some chicken wings.
My VStar is not fast. Its pretty. Thats its job ~ to be pretty. I have no plans of doing any modifications to that engine cawz it runs just fine. It is what it is. Its pretty. It was given to me for "payment" to evaluate the front end. (Thats what I get for being too fat...er..big to make any money competitively) They give all the slow guys the sucky jobs like testing and evaluation. I never tried to make it pull a fourth gear wheelie at 110mph. Its just not that kind of bike. I have other bikes to take care of that.

So don't get me wrong when I say that I know what you are talking about and don't underestimate me when I say that I know what I am talking about.

It still dynos at 10 more HP than a standard big twin...

So...you have 70hp instead of 60hp. Hell, if you spend a few thousand more, you might be able to keep up with a $1500 , 1984 500cc Honda Interceptor.


That was a joke. I am sorry, I couldn't help myself. My point is WHY? WHY? WHY? Why would someone spend $6.5K for a bike ~ take all the time and money to take the engine apart and spend exorbitant amounts of money to get to the performance levels of another bike that has twice the power out of the crate at the same sale price? WHY?

That just doesn't make any sense to me.
BUT (and thats a big "BUT") If you are happy, I am happy. I don't pay any of your bills so its none of my business what you ride. I just can't help but think you would have been so much happier with a better bike. Without looking at the nametag. Without knowing at all where that bike is produced. I have ridden so many bikes that did not belong to me and I have made myself block out everything except how the bike feels and the sportser is the worst, by far. But again. If you are happy......

It's faster than the 1100 Yammy cruiser my buddy rides,

Thats the VStar, right? Come on now. Tell the truth. Is it really faster? I mean faster like real numbers, not because you got the jump in a more favorable gear. I have a hard time believing that because the mathematics of those two bikes lets the VStar win hands down without even racing. Even the 1200 mod Sporsters dont add up.
This is the way I compare bikes when talking about performance. ~~~ I have a 1981 Honda CB750C out in my shop. (I love that bike) Its no speed demon, thats for sure. When compared, it outruns a 2006 HD Sportster 1200 without ever setting tar on the track. I get that conclusion because that bike has 85hp at 8200rpm and 51 torque at 6900rpm. (yes, I have daily access to a dyno) The beast weighs 510lbs.
That, compared to numbers of a 1200 Sportster that chimes in at less HP and 100lbs more weight puts the 26 year old 750 one and a half seconds faster in a quarter mile. Granted, the 1200 has more torque and has a better 60foot time, but that jump is not nearly enough to make up for the top end difference.
Now at the finish line, the 1200 owner is gonna say his bike is not for racing, its for cruising. I say its a good thing its not because no matter how many modifications you make, no matter how much money you spend, the bike is still a boat anchor. And that boat anchor will be handed its ass by just about every bike on the market, excluding a few mopeds.

[HOTTIEBOY]

Don't the Freedom Riders would attend the military funerals ride Harley's for the most part?Yes, they do. They are a great bunch of guy and gals. I have met quite a few.
I ride the chopper at that type of event because it just fits in better. Its purdy. They look at my custom and they cannot believe their eyes when they see Yamaha on the side.

[killjoy]

I was talking to a hardcore standard rider about performance. He was taken aback and said his bike was plenty fast. He very proudly told me how he paid $17,000 for the bike and went straight into the engine. Changing bore and stroke, updating with tighter heads and using bigger carbs. He said he had nearly $20k in that bike and it was a real performance machine. He said he could do 11.24 seconds in a quarter mile. I proceeded to tell him that I paid $8995 and could do 10.45 in a quarter mile. He asked me what I did to the bike and I told him I put gas in it and turned the key.

LOL! A good friend of mine had a similar experience. He ran into a guy who sunk about $50,000US into a corvette and was going on and on about performance times. My friend asked if he was dissapointed that he put all that work into his car and it still couldn't outperform a $7000 sportbike. The guy shut up pretty fast.

[HOTTIEBOY]

I have ridden one of those.


SUPER FUN BIKE!!

[stainlessbanner]

Aug. 16, 2006

[HOTTIEBOY]

143????

You late, man!

[zipper]

..Harley almost went out of business back in the 80s until Reagan helped out.

Yeah I remember. I helped pay for that with the 400 dollar tariff I paid on my high-performance jap bike. Still waiting for Harley to pay me back (*cough*)

[sgtbono2002]

I have a lot of friends on Harleys. I have owned a few myself, and I love them. But I dont know of any of them who hasnt modified the thing in some way to get some power out of it. I believe Harley designs it weak so they can sell the parts to make it get out of its own way.

They still wont run with the big dogs though.

Harley tried for a few years to run with the big guys in International road racing. They hired top riders,but they just couldnt cut the mustard. Their super-bike sent Chris Carr back to the dirt tracks. They took this engine designed by Porsche and put it in their V-rod, and its a fun bike, but it cant run with the fast bikes. I believe one day this V-rod engine will be Harleys standard.

Now Harleys arent really meant to be fast. They are cruisers, and they do it pretty well at legal highway speeds. But if you go out west where the speeds are a bit greater, Dont expect to run with the Wings or the BMW's.

Now Snooper,If you dont think the Harley's are mass produced go to York sometime. They have factory tours. Their production line is pretty ,much like anyone elses. They arent hand made by any means.

If you are looking for the image Harley is the way to go, Just be prepared to pay too much.

My life as a Harley owner stopped when I retired .and started living on retirement pay.
When the last Harley I had got old like me.
The speedometer had stopped working several times and had stopped again. The base gaskets I had replaced 4 times before were leaking again. I had a Bungy cord helping me shift the gears because a 10 cent spring in the transmission broke and it was going to be $700 dollars to fix it. The carbureters needed replacement after being rebuilt twice. The bike had 100 thousand miles on it and was just plain wore out.

I sold it for $4,000 dollars and bought a used Venture Yamaha for $7,000 and never looked back. I have put 40,000 miles on the Yamaha .In 4 years I have replaced the battery and put 3 sets of tires on it. One set of brakes all the way around. Changed the oil a few times and thats it. Thats it.
I have scooted around with the Harley friends I have and when they get on it I can run with them really easy except I have to watch my tach to shift because I cant hear anything but their noise.

[bert]

..... But, when a company is making mega money, is it a bad thing that workers get a stake in it? .....

Yes. The workers have no stake in the profits of a company. If they want profits, they must have the faith to buy the stock and become owners.

Your question indicates a misunderstanding of business. Owners take risks and make profits. Workers take no risk and earn wages.

Chavez in Venezuela thinks like you and is nationalizing all the industry.

[JoeGar]

Now I ride a Yamaha and am amazed at the difference in the maintenance costs. I just change the oil and the tires the bike has a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty.

Let me guess -- you, like me, are a happy Royal Star owner. Venture or Tour Deluxe?

[sgtbono2002]

Correctomundo. I have the Venture.

I have owned and ridden motorcycles for over 40 years and have never owned a more reliable steed.

I also have never belonged to a better organisation than the Venturers. Always first rate reliable information there from real owners with honest and truthful answers to questions and a great technical library.

[Domicile of Doom]

I don't ride, and I don't care about Union Workers building non-essential devices. Recreation is great, but don't try to make it my problem. If HD goes out of business, people will not starve, war will not start, and another firm will replace them.

[Melas]

So...you have 70hp instead of 60hp. Hell, if you spend a few thousand more, you might be able to keep up with a $1500 , 1984 500cc Honda Interceptor.

I must not pay enough attention to stock HP. I dyno'd at a hair over 80hp. I dyno'd btw, as a tuning aid, not to actually measure how much power it has. In any event, it has way more power than I'll never need or want, and the power is all down low where I like it.

That was a joke. I am sorry, I couldn't help myself. My point is WHY? WHY? WHY? Why would someone spend $6.5K for a bike ~ take all the time and money to take the engine apart and spend exorbitant amounts of money to get to the performance levels of another bike that has twice the power out of the crate at the same sale price? WHY?

I guess we look at it differently. The money was negligable...about the price of a set of bicycle forks. The time was enjoyable digging into th engine and learning how it all worked together. I think I did ok for my first top end rebuild.

I just can't help but think you would have been so much happier with a better bike. Without looking at the nametag. Without knowing at all where that bike is produced. I have ridden so many bikes that did not belong to me and I have made myself block out everything except how the bike feels and the sportser is the worst

Nope. I've also lost count of how many bikes I've ridden, and to date, I like the Sportster the best of any. I have no problem with owning a Japanese or European bike. I once rode a Honda Twinstar 185 from Denver Colorado to St. Louis Missouri to see a girl.

There are a few Japanese bikes that I would consider a fair ergonomic match, but I don't care for any of them. The Suzuki Intruders fit nicely, but I've never liked the feel of them. The Honda Rebel has good ergos, but if you want to talk about underpowered, that's the bike. The Honda VLX fits nicely but at anything over 40mph it vibrates like 3 Pan Heads chained together. It's virtually unridable in my opinion. I do ride on the highway.

Thats the VStar, right? Come on now. Tell the truth. Is it really faster? I mean faster like real numbers, not because you got the jump in a more favorable gear. I have a hard time believing that because the mathematics of those two bikes lets the VStar win hands down without even racing. Even the 1200 mod Sporsters dont add up.

Much faster. It's not even a contest. Even when we trade bikes it's no contest. I can pull away in any gear. Not that it really matters, because his bike is plenty fast and break traffic laws in all 50 states.

When compared, it outruns a 2006 HD Sportster 1200 without ever setting tar on the track. I get that conclusion because that bike has 85hp at 8200rpm and 51 torque at 6900rpm. (yes, I have daily access to a dyno) The beast weighs 510lbs.

Well, I'll be honest. I don't know how to compare real world speeds on a Dyno. I do know that my 98hp build sucked for real world power, and my 80hp build rocks. My max torque is 85 at 4200rpm and max HP is 80 at 5500rpm. Everything on the high HP build was moved up in RPM's. At real world riding speeds, it had considerably less power than the present build. If you were downshifting and screaming the engine it had plenty, but roll on at 70mph was seat of the pants, half of it what it has now.

I do find it interesting that on your Honda that your max torque is almost half what your max power is, while on my ride max torque is higher than max power. I suspect that's the core of why you like what you like, and why I like what I like. ie, completely different riding styles.

[66-442hot]

When was it ever presented as was "your" problem?

You made a ham fisted general remark about union workers directly opposite of my experience. I responded.

Don't ride - well, that is your problem. Not mine. Drive a car? What kind of mileage do you get? My bike get 45 mpg. Seems when I ride the bike, I am saving energy over driving my car. Is that a good thing?

Many lives will be affected in major ways if these business' fold. Starve, maybe not. Have you given any thought to the impact? Any suggestions as to what firms might replace all those jobs?

[sam_paine]

[UNIONS] helped create the middle class in this country. YEP, the same one that is disappearing at a fast rate.

Interesting Irony that you undermine your own argument there!

The "Union Created Middle Class" was indeed an unsustainable socialist mirage.