The Muslim Festival Of Ashura - Graphic Photos

Sweetness & Light ^ | January 28, 2007 | N/A

[Sam Hill]

Today begins Ashura, which like the festival of Eid al-Adha is another bloodthirsty Muslim holiday:

  

  

And we wonder why these people are so violent.

Excerpted. Please read the rest at Sweetness & Light...

[aruanan]

Young pilgrims cry at Imam Abbas shrine in Kerbala,...

...because they know that in just a few minutes they're going to get their foreheads split open.

[aruanan]

Well, it's not highly unlikely -- it's *absolutely guaranteed* that this will happen from Jesus' words in the Gospels, when He was talking about the "abomination of desolation" when he referenced Daniel. The Temple *has to be in place* and the sacrifices will be *interrupted* at that time -- at the future time that Jesus was talking about. By His own words, these things will be taking place.

Dude, that already happened. You're about 1936 years too late. It was a future event to Jesus and to Daniel. The sacrifices were interrupted in the Temple that was in place and later, as Jesus foretold, the Temple was torn down. The latter day eschatological cults have left you unprepared to read scripture.

[aruanan]

They problem is that you can't see the forest for all the quoted trees.

[aruanan]

But, really, in talking about that, you have to keep in mind that the Bible *only* talks to three distinct groups of people, the Jews, the Gentiles and the Church. Jesus was talking to his brethren, the Jews. They will see it. The Church will not (and, of course, the "Church" refers to the body of believers and not to manmade "organizations").

Again, you're guilty of eisegesis and faulty logic. The sad thing is you don't even realize it.

[aruanan]

So, Jesus was saying that this Temple was nothing, it would be destroyed and then, He moves forward, in His explanations to His disciples and tells of the future time, during that coming Tribulation (of which there is no other time period on earth like it, according to Jesus) -- and it's during that time -- at the midpoint, that the Temple sacrifices are stopped and the "abomination of desolation" happens inside that Temple.

Again, eisegesis because of already having adopted a position you believe is biblical, you reinterpret everything you read in that light and assign meanings and distinctions that are nowhere evident in the text.

[mewzilla]

Do only Shia celebrate Ashoura? And only certain Shia sects practice the bloodletting? Just curious.

[aruanan]

NOW..., here is the setting. Paul had already told them before that the Rapture would happen *before the Day of the Lord*. Now, at this time (of the writing of the letter) -- they *are upset*!

See? Again, in this passage you're referring to something that isn't even described.

Later on, down in the paragraph, Paul also refers to the Spirit being taken out of the way (verse 7), which currently restrains. And since the Spirit is in every believer, He acts as that restraint, right now -- until He is "taken out of the way".

More than 30 years ago I heard this interpretation of this passage as referring to the pre-Trib rapture. It's another example of eisegesis based on previously held interpretations the truth of which is taken for granted and, therefore, never thoroughly examined.

[Sam Hill]

Day of Ashura - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_Ashura

Apparently both Sunni and Shia commemorate the event. But it would seem that the Shiites go more in for the self-flagellation and laceration.

[mewzilla]

Thanks!

[mewzilla]

The holiday has a website...

www.ashura.com

[CDHart]

Regardless of the reason, anyone who whips himself like this has got to be really strange, IMO. They are not playing with a full deck.

Carolyn

[Star Traveler]

You said -- "More than 30 years ago I heard this interpretation of this passage as referring to the pre-Trib rapture. It's another example of eisegesis based on previously held interpretations the truth of which is taken for granted and, therefore, never thoroughly examined."

It's already thoroughly explained here (link below), in regards to the original language. And also note the translations prior to King James (given in that note, too). That puts it (at least for the translators) back about 500 years ago. But, for the church, it's already been explained elsewhere that it's been there from the first few centuries. You can read up on it. This first link will give you a start -- and move your date of 30 years -- at least back another 500 years. More reading will move it back a couple of millennia --

http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=165

They are much better qualified than me to explain it. That's why the link was given up above.

Regards,
Star Traveler

[Star Traveler]

You said -- "Dude, that already happened. You're about 1936 years too late. It was a future event to Jesus and to Daniel. The sacrifices were interrupted in the Temple that was in place and later, as Jesus foretold, the Temple was torn down. The latter day eschatological cults have left you unprepared to read scripture."

Well, the preterist position has never seemed very accurate to me. For one thing, in that Matthew 24 (and I think I've already quoted it in prior posts above), you'll notice that Jesus refers to this time that He's talking about in a certain way. It's this time that He refers to that the "abomination of desolation" takes place in the holy place (which they understood to be the Temple and you can see it referred to by Paul, too).

And by the way, there *was* an event that was *prior* to the time of Jesus when there was someone who did stand in the holy place, declaring himself to be God. Since that was *prior* to Jesus (although "future" to Daniel) -- that event does not meet Jesus' statements (another reason, also, you can see below).

Furthermore, the one standing in the holy place, declaring himself to be God, never happened back then, after Jesus' time. There was a destruction of the temple, but, as you can see below -- it doesn't meet Jesus' *standard* for the event He is talking about. You can see why it does not meet that standard of what Jesus was walking about, below.

So, there was an event before Jesus (didn't meet the standard), there was no one standing in the holy place, declaring himself to be God (didn't meet the standard, see the Apostle Paul on that one), ane then, it doesn't meet the standard for the type of tribulation that it was (Hitler in the 1940s surpassed that back then, so didn't meet the standard).

So, His disciples ask Him when the end of the age is and the sign of His coming --

"And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Jesus explains about a lot of things that are going to happen, and then he goes to that "abomination of desolation" and he places it at this particular time frame -- in terms of the great tribulation (that He refers to).

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

So, we have this time period, which is the end of the age, after which Jesus returns, and we see that there is *no greater tribulation* ever to be seen on this earth -- not from the "beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Well, it's obvious that we've surpassed that particular localized tribulation, in and around Jerusalem, the sacking of it from Rome and its total destruction. I believe there were about one million or maybe a million and a half Jews killed during that time. But, even so, the world has seen worse, as far as "tribulations" go. That was nothing compared to others.

Hitler, himself surpassed the killing of the Jews in the 1940s by about *four times* as many -- as the Romans did, back then (at that time period).

So, it's obvious that this "great tribulation" had not happened *yet* -- even in the 1940s, because we still have the potential for *surpassing that* -- today (and in the future).

Sorry, greater tribulations are yet to come -- and anyone with half a brain can tell we have not reached the "apex" of "great tribulations" yet.

And since Jesus said that there would *never* be another time period that would *ever* surpass it -- even from the beginning of the world to the *end* of the world -- well..., we're not there yet.

Good try, though. Try again...

Regards,
Star Traveler

[Star Traveler]

You said -- "Again, you're guilty of eisegesis and faulty logic. The sad thing is you don't even realize it."

Well, I hope you do know that your preterist position is such a small and insignificant part of Christian scholarship (i.e., "non-scholarhsip) that most don't even bother mentioning it. It's hardly worth the effort.

I wouldn't have mentioned it because it causes most people to walk away from it scratching their heads, wondering how people can twist Jesus' words so much. But, you do bring it up, so I answered a few points for you, in the above posts.

Regards,
Star Traveler

[ViLaLuz]

Happy Ashura 2008, y’all!

[ViLaLuz]

I forgot to add that Ashura is actually the name of a demon. Check it out!