Embarrassed

January 27, 2007 | AdamSmithWasRight

[AdamSmithWasRight]

As I read the news day in and day out from my perspective of being on the inside looking out, I look at my own home and couldn't be any more embarrassed than I currently am. It has been compounded from 9/11 by constant images and stories in the media about the actions of the Muslim community.

I must admit to myself if I was on the outside looking in I would probably look at myself in the same way so many others do. If all I saw were nihilistic thugs raping, robbing, murdering, and littering the streets of the world with the bodies of innocent people I wouldn't know what else to think of this group of people for religion.

As I now sit inside of the United States I find myself looking at this house in two perspectives. At times from the inside looking out and wanting to escape for this image that has haunts me day in and day out but also at times from the outside looking in. It is these proud patriotic times when religion takes the passenger seat or well I should say, isn't even in the car, that I look at that house and think, "Don't you people get it???"

At moments like this I realize and force myself to accept the reality that the real problem here is the Muslim community itself. It is no longer the fundamentalsits or Al-Qaeda alone, rather the very community itself that has failed to deliver or even show an attempt to remedy this nihilistic ideology within their ranks. As an American but also as a Muslim I would like to convey my most sincere apologies although I know to most this are just empty words in light of the death and injury of so many. For most we have reached a point where apologies and words will do nothing but further agitate the situation. Rather what is needed is action.

It is this which I do recognize and wish deliver, but I realize that I can only do this with help from others. I would hope that the American people, my brothers and sisters, would not so easily give up on the Bush doctrine of changing the face of the middle east where this dangerous threat to world civility and humanity is found. If we hope to find change I believe we can only find it in the overthrowing and or absolute destruction of the very regimes and elements that support this authoritarinism from within their midst. As long as we hold on to the Bush doctrine I honestly believe that we can one day watch the purple fingers of freedom wave from Morocco to Indonesia.

Until that day, if it comes, I apologize my friends and ask you to stick with the President and his vision for a new middle east.

[AdamSmithWasRight]

Sorry I wrote this article while I was at school so I wasn't able to engage in a dialouge with anyone on here until now. Actually I wasn't born in the United States but I grew up here and the U.S. is pretty much all I know. It's where I swear my allegiance to, I don't say i'm anything else but American. I am an observant Muslim and no I didn't convert. I went to public school like most others and I live on the east coast. I don't want to get more specific in case some angry people do read this.

Actually it's really interesting that you ask about the issue of the mosque, I do attend regularly as well as the prayer services we have on campus. In terms of the main mosque I attend, they severely limit political speech to avoid this very issue all together. They have zero tolerance for people mixing religion and politics or trying to use Islam to justify various political opinions. The Imam says things like, remember to vote and participate in the political process like everyone else so that you are represented but that's about it. In terms of the members of the community though most don't identify or sympathize with any sort of militant elements. I would say almost everyone is very embarrassed by the actions of these groups, and that they have brought more damage to us all than anything anyone else could possibly do. But what some have said on this thread is why they don't speak out. One is because they do fear for their families because you never know where one of those psychos may pop out from and if they hear you. People really do fear these people because of the reputation they have, especially in the countries where most Muslims come from. I also feel that the community rather needs a tipping point to will overtake the fear and I do believe that is coming to the growing pressure where Muslims are really starting to feel like outsiders and they really don't want to feel like that. So if being more inclusive means actually being active and not passive in trying to keep and extra ear out for anyone really radical than they are going to do it.

A prime example recently has been this guy Osama El Dawoody in NYC who turned in a would be homicide bomber on a subway train.

[-=SoylentSquirrel=-]

"...With what I would guess are very rare exceptions, most Christian or Jewish sects do not preach lying in wait for people of other faiths and attacking them wherever you can..."

I had some Mormons lie in wait and knock on my door once. Oh, the humanities.

And once a lady from my congregation laid in wait at the end of the beer aisle as I was picking up a 4-pack of Guinness at 9am. I could have died from shame.

However, as I write this I can confirm that my head is still firmly affixed to my body, so I think I'm comparing apples and oranges.

HAPPY FRIDAY !

[jcb1379]

I wholeheartedly agree that we are a "Christian nation," much as India is a "Hindu nation," or Iraq a "Muslim nation;" eg. the majority of our population is Christian, and our social norms and mores are based on Judeo-Christian teachings. Our religious foundation, however, is not codified in the legal documents that form the basis for our government. Yes, the Declaration is a decidedly "God-friendly" document, but it served only to sever the ties with Great Britain, not create a government for the colonies. The Constitution details what "constitutes" our government, and there is no mention of morality or religious beliefs at all. Socially, yes, we are heavily influenced by Judeo-Christian tradition. Legally, we are influenced by Locke, Montesquieu, Rousseau, et al.

As far as the state constitutions go, I would prefer that THEY had more sway than the US Constitution. We are far to federalist for my tastes--California should be able to bask in a secular-humanistic absence of any Western moral teachings, just as Texas should be able to have an Our Father said before every football game. However, state constitutions, while not necessarily in disagreement with the US Constitution, do not hold national power--they only affect a particular state.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Excellent post. You need to encourage others who believe the same as you to speak out, and as has been shown on this thread, we need to encourage others to listen to what you have to say.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Update at 181.

[pollyannaish]

Well, I am certainly no scholar, but I did read it for a class years ago.

My overall impression was that it was filled with a lot of saber rattling and chest pounding, tempered with minutia regarding every day life. I found it prescriptive rather than redemptive.

[pollyannaish]

Please know that there are some of us who support you.

[presidio9]

Oh, and I apologize; I'm ashamed of myself in that I did not come up with something even more clever and witty. Not like the bar is high though....

I' not really that interested in hearing about your cognitive limitations. Did you even bother to read what ASWR posted, or are you satisfied to simply float lame Archie Bunkerisms and pretend that you are being witty?

[jcb1379]

I actually have read the things that inspired the Constitution. Montesquieu's Spirit of the Laws, Locke's Second Treatise on Government, Rousseau's The Social Contract. I've also read the Constitution. Only says "Lord" once, and it is in closing and in reference to the date on which the Constitution was signed. That's it. No "Creator," no "God," nothing of the sort.

The Constitution is SIMPLY a document that describes what our government would look like, what would constitute the government of the United States of America. Not a guide for morals, not a social indicator of belief, a blueprint for the government.

[pollyannaish]

LOL. This thread is starting to feel like being in school again. I remember so many years of plowing my way through this stuff. Woo-hoo! Western Thought.

Good post.

[eleni121]

You cannot be an American and also a muslim.

---

You are right. There is a fundamental contradiction there. Koran believing muslims are commanded to destroy non muslims. Simple as that.

[Nathan Zachary]

"Curiously, it seems radical Islam has much greater freedom of expression in the West, than it does in many Arab Islamic countries (Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc.). It's almost as if the leaders of those countries know something we in the West don't."

Yet for some reason, Westerners are deaf to it.

" What do you think is behind this phenomena?"

That's easy. Jihad, the most important pillar of Islam.

Bukhari:V4B52N311 "Allah's Apostle said, ‘There is no migration after the Conquest of Mecca, but only Jihad. When you are called by the Muslim ruler for Jihad fighting, you should go forth immediately, responding to the call.'"

Yet, westerners are to dumb to understand what Jihad means, and would rather believe an islamic appologists explanation, unsupported by scripture and the meaning explained by Islams top Imams.

Qur'an:9:111 "Allah has purchased the believers, their lives and their goods. For them (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise). They fight in Allah's Cause, and they slay and are slain; they kill and are killed."

It's clearly NOT an "inner struggle".

Qur'an:47:4 "So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

Noble Qur'an:2:190 Footnote: "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah's Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite."

It's non- negotiable.

Qur'an 47:33 "Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace."

(unless of course you are loosing and need to regroup and reload)

Qur'an 9:3 "Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle."

Qur'an 9:8 "How (can there be such a treaty), seeing that they get an advantage, the upper hand over you? They do not pay you respect, or honor you or the ties of kinship or covenant. With (good words from) their mouths they entice you [out negotiate you], but their hearts are averse to you."

Qur'an 9:3 "Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations."

Qur'an 66:1 "Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows."

Qur'an 33:11 "In that situation the Believers were sorely tried and shaken as by a tremendous shaking. And behold! The Hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: ‘Allah and His Messenger promised us nothing but delusion; they have promised only to deceive us."

Qur'an 33:21 "You have in (Muhammad) the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern of conduct for any one to follow."

Murder, rape, pedophilia, A fine man.

[presidio9]

I admire your courage, and the attitude that you have taken towards our society's treatment of muslims. It takes a mature intellect to understand why some people feel the way they do. I only hope that as time goes by that we will be hearing from more and more people like you. I have to admit that I am not entirely optimistic about that proposition, but that is what I am praying for.

That being said, I work in downtown Manhattan, and it is my opinion that I have a better than average shot at losing my life at the hands of somebody who professes to be a follower of your religion. Do you see the dichotomy?

[Aurorales]

If someone has already stated this, sorry for the repeat.
It is not that America has a problem with a Muslim being an American. It is the Muslim faith having a problem with a true Muslim being an American.

If this is what edcoil was stating then I agree with him. Sorry if that offends, but I believe it too.

[Diddle E. Squat]

AdamSmithWasRight, welcome to FR. Just know that the 2% of FR who are rabid morons unfortunately make about 50% of the posts these days. Post #2 provided a quick example of this.

[jcb1379]

Western thought, indeed. I don't dispute that it is the attitude of a rational God, a God who created us all equally and with inherent dignity as persons (and thus with certain rights that no other humans can take away), and gave us all an internal sense of justice. It is on this basis that the great thinkers, beginning 800 years ago, started pushing monarchs to protect inherent rights to life and liberty.

The issue these folks can't seem to understand is that, much as our social mores are developed from Judeo-Christian beliefs, our government is rooted in secular, legal principles. The Constitution no more endorses Christianity than the New Testament endorses Republicans; they share basics, but correlation does not mean causation.

[Constitution Day]

Thanks for the insightful post.

I have the feeling you represent the distinct majority, but it's a start.

[presidio9]

I wholeheartedly agree that we are a "Christian nation," much as India is a "Hindu nation," or Iraq a "Muslim nation;" eg. the majority of our population is Christian, and our social norms and mores are based on Judeo-Christian teachings.

We are most certainly NOT a "Christian nation." We are a secular nation formed on Christian principals (BTW the "Judeo" part is superfluous PC nonsense -any "Christian" principal is implicitly "Judeo" as well). There is a HUGE difference. America has always been a Great Experiment in religious freedom. It was founded as such.

[pollyannaish]

I should probably add that my point was in response to the poster who said I could benefit from "Islamic Scripture" which I took to mean that he thought I was naive because I had never been exposed to it.

I am certainly not a scholar on the subject, but I do have first hand exposure to the basic concepts. In addition, my grandmother used to be a sponsor for Jordanian students so they could come to college in the US. She met several members of the Jordanian royal family. So I do have first hand knowledge of how many devout Muslims practice. I have both positive and negative perspectives on that...depending on which student were talking about. I find I have similar perspectives on Christians as well.

That said, naive is pretty much a concept in the eye of the beholder, so anything I might say isn't going to change that. :-)

[Ditto]

The Constitution is a document stating our basic laws which were inspired in part by the Ten Commandants.

Here's the Constitution.

Please show me what part was inspired by the Ten Commandments? The Constitution itself (the Articles) are not "laws" in the simple respect... it is the framework of the national government, and the responsibility, authority and limitations of that government in respect to it's member states.

If we want to talk about the amendments in terms of the Ten Commandments, I'd say that the 1st Amendment is the complete opposite in intention of the 1st Commandment. It basically says that if you want to worship a Golden Calf, Congress will not interfere with your choice or force you to worship or support any particular faith.