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Great, factual article. 300 words does not do it justice. Well written, factual and belongs on every conservative politicians clipboard.

By the way, the reason performance does not improve that much is student's abilities don't improve that much. IQ is on a Gaussian distribution (Bell Curve) and the parameters of this have been known for 100 years. Known in obscure academic articles but known.

1 posted on 01/09/2007 8:12:12 AM PST by shrinkermd
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To: shrinkermd

Public Schools use to teach the core academics needed to succeed in the working world. Now schools have become involved in social experiments and have taken on the roll of "parent" in much of this country's public school system. There is way too much time given to dealing with social and behavioral problems as compared to direct teaching of academic skills. Having worked in Public Schools for the past 12+ years, this is my observation.

More money is being spent, not on teaching academics, but on dealing with repairing the torn social fabric which used to be taken care of in the home and within the general community.


2 posted on 01/09/2007 8:18:40 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Father of a 2nd BCT 10th Mountain Soldier fighting the terrorists in Iraq)
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To: shrinkermd

Add in teachers' pensions, too, often matched by the state, or in the case of CA and some other states, wholly provided by the state. In other words, the state pays for the teachers' retirement, as opposed to workers funding their own 401(k). In CA, the "average" public teacher will get over $500,000 in pension payments over the course of their retirement, for "free".

Having taught high school before, though, I can tell you that the hours are as long as in the private sector, though the point about having the summers off is valid.


3 posted on 01/09/2007 8:18:45 AM PST by wacko rightwinger
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To: shrinkermd
IQ is on a Gaussian distribution (Bell Curve) and the parameters of this have been known for 100 years. Known in obscure academic articles but known.

But, I thought if we spent enough money, EVERYONE would be the same "smartness". /sarc

I think we have all figured out by now that students are stronger in some areas than in others. After the first few years, students may be more eager to continue learning if we allow them to focus more time on the subjects that interest them, removed all of the social engineering, and maybe move the start of school back so that the end of school coincides with the time most parents get off of work.

This force-feeding of a curriculum to make everyone equal is doing nobody any good.
4 posted on 01/09/2007 8:25:26 AM PST by Eagle of Liberty ("I do a lot of things to irritate the libs. And it works!" - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: shrinkermd

The reason performance hasn't improed has nothing to do with IQ and everything to do with a dumbed-down or useless curriculum.


5 posted on 01/09/2007 8:31:50 AM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: shrinkermd
Special Education soaks up a lot of education dollars. And the number of SpecEd kids is constantly increasing (which is an interesting topic on its own).

What I have seen is that many teachers have little choice but to ignore 90% of their students, and just focus on the one kid with special needs. I would say that a mainstream class in a public school cannot possibly give these kids what they need. Therefore, when the teacher ignores 90% of the class so that she can focus on one kid with special needs, then 100% of the students are short-changed (at great financial cost, too).

I'd like to see vouchers in place, so that 90% of the kids can go to private schools. The 10% of the students with special needs should go to government schools where everyone on staff is trained to work with special needs kids. I believe it would be cheaper and all the kids would be better off.

6 posted on 01/09/2007 8:32:03 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Enoch Powell was right.)
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To: shrinkermd

No question that teaching salaries have increased, but then they better damn well have since salaries in every other profession have as well, and teaching is a very labor intensive business. It's hit the teaching profession particularly hard because of the womens' movement. There was once a time when a career woman had a choice between being a teacher and being a nurse. As a result, there were a large number of very qualified women in the teaching profession. Not anymore.

Another problem with our schools is that that they have strayed too far from the 3 Rs, and have become mired in the tarbaby of partisan politics. The other problem is that they have put so much pressure on kids to graduate, that they don't acknowledge the fact that some kids just can't handle it, and should not be there. Get the thugs out of the schools, and things will turn around real quick.


7 posted on 01/09/2007 8:34:08 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: shrinkermd

You know I think Ann Coulter described it best in her most recent book,...If you went into teaching, because you cared so much about children, you obviously weren't thinking about the paycheck in the very beginning. After all what moron goes into teaching with ideas of making mega bucks from that salary? The unions use the jaded attitude of teachers to their advantage to say "you're worth more than cops and fireman"


8 posted on 01/09/2007 8:38:08 AM PST by paltz
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To: shrinkermd

--great article--needs a repost--


10 posted on 01/09/2007 8:43:11 AM PST by rellimpank (-don't believe anything the MSM states about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: shrinkermd; mcvey

excellent article.


13 posted on 01/09/2007 8:49:08 AM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/optimism_nov8th.htm)
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To: shrinkermd
Public School Education....LOL.... Here's a quote from the commie "founder" of Public School Education, John Dewey:

"When school children start paying union dues, that's when I'll start representing the interests of school children." The words of John Dewey, a founder of America's public education system, also fit nicely into Coulter's state-of-the-classroom address: "You can't make Socialists out of individualists -- children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming, where everyone is interdependent." Coulter responds, "You also can't make socialists out of people who can read, which is probably why Democrats think the public schools have nearly achieved Aristotelian perfection."

17 posted on 01/09/2007 8:57:32 AM PST by paltz
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To: shrinkermd
I am a teacher/administrator/coach at a private faith-based school. No one at our school belongs to a teachers union.
Salary - ~$54,000 per year (total)
Hours - August through May I average 55+ hours per week.
June and July I average 30 hours per week
Vacation - I have one week off for Christmas, one week for Spring break, and two weeks in the summer.

This does not include the hours I have spent on my own time to become a better teacher/administrator by completing two master's degrees.

The teachers at our school have 12 month contracts. Although they receive a 3-4 weeks of the summer(June/July) off (depending on experience), they are required to completed certain curriculum, facility, classroom, committee, and personal development tasks. Most of our staff do not take the full 3-4 weeks off in the summer, opting instead to come in for half days and/or shorter weeks.

I am sharing this for comparison purposes.
21 posted on 01/09/2007 9:03:26 AM PST by rightsmart
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To: shrinkermd

Our public school system is a miserable failure. But I would not so quickly point the finger at teachers. Our public school system is a miserable failure because its operation is primarily in the hands of corrupt and incompetent politicians. Our government has become a miserable failure. We spend more for less. Follow the money. If we followed every tax dollar, would we find any government entity that is more effective today than it was a decade ago? Teachers are merely government employees and like all government employees their pay exceeds their effectiveness and value to society by a wide margin.


24 posted on 01/09/2007 9:05:54 AM PST by Biblebelter
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To: shrinkermd
the reason performance does not improve that much is student's abilities don't improve that much

Maybe I misunderstand. When I went to school everyone learned to read and do basic arithmetic. We learned essential geography and a lot of history. We learned how the American system of government works and studied the Constitution.

Now much of that appears to be lost. Why? It has nothing to do with student abilities, unless kids are actually losing IQ points! I think it has far more to do with unions and the fact that schools are stuck with trying to unscramble the great societal collapse that began in 1963.

45 posted on 01/09/2007 9:52:54 AM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: shrinkermd

Great post. When I moved from Long Island in 2003, the AVERAGE teacher salary in my district was over $85K. Add in the pensions, the post-retiree health care benefits, the sabbaticals, and every summer off, and its not a bad gig at all. Starting salary is pretty low (mid 30s), but if you get to tenure you are set for life. Some of the more experienced teachers (with PhDs) earned over $100k annually.

I knew a husband and wife teacher who live on LI. They bought a ski condo in Vermont so they could spend their considerable free time there. They knew they had a racket.


54 posted on 01/09/2007 10:14:31 AM PST by dashing doofus (Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber)
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To: shrinkermd
The most recent data available indicate that teachers average 7.3 working hours per day, and that they work 180 days per year, adding up to 1,314 hours per year. Americans in normal 9-to-5 professions who take two weeks of vacation and another ten paid holidays per year put in 1,928 working hours. Doing the math, this means the average teacher gets paid a base salary equivalent to a fulltime salary of $65,440.

This kind of argument is silly. Kind of hard to spend hypothetical dollars. Furthermore, it is an appeal to class envy. A better rebuttal to the false notion that teachers are "poor", is the fact that most teachers belong to two income families. My guess is that the average teacher family earns about $65.440 in spendable money. The high-end earners in that category more than double that amount. Teacher salaries are designed to attract those who are looking for a second income. But of course they are quite sufficient for a single person. The only thing is, that the better and brighter single people can usually find a full-time job that pays better, and one does get what one pays for.

55 posted on 01/09/2007 10:22:40 AM PST by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: shrinkermd; Born Conservative; kenth; CatoRenasci; Marie; PureSolace; Congressman Billybob; ...

Education ping list
Let Republicanprofessor, McVey, JamesP81, or eleni121 know if you wish to be placed on this ping list or taken off it.


67 posted on 01/09/2007 12:30:42 PM PST by mcvey (Fight on. Do not give up. Ally with those you must. Defeat those you can. And fight on whatever.)
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To: shrinkermd
At the end of World War II, public schools in the United States spent a total of $1,214 per student in inflation-adjusted 2002 dollars. By the middle of the 1950s that figure had roughly doubled to $2,345. By 1972 it had almost doubled again, reaching $4,479. And since then, it has doubled a third time, climbing to $8,745 in 2002.

Rather than the exponential growth of doubling at regular intervals, it seems to be merely a linear expansion. The intervals are not constant.

It looks like this:
1945 (ish): $1214
1955 (ish): $2345, up $1131, or $131.10 per year
1972: $4479, up $2134, or $125.50 per year
2002: $8745, up $4266, or $142.20 per year.

In constant dollars, it's still ugly, but using the "doubling" theme with inconsistent (and actually increasing) intervals seems misleading to me.

Get rid of the federal Dept of Education, and some of these problems start to go away. Neuter the teacher's unions, make it easier to get rid of incorrigible students and inappropriate teachers, and empower the remaining teachers and administrators within their own schools (especially against threats of lawsuits), and many more problems magically disappear.

Sadly, nobody in power will entertain such fantasies.

68 posted on 01/09/2007 12:55:58 PM PST by Teacher317
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To: shrinkermd

74 posted on 01/09/2007 1:54:21 PM PST by Straight Vermonter (It takes a school to bankrupt a village.)
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To: shrinkermd
By 1972 it had almost doubled again, reaching $4,479. And since then, it has doubled a third time, climbing to $8,745 in 2002.

Yeah, and in 1979 I bought a brand new top of the line Toyota Celica for under $7000. Try getting anything but a bare bones new car for under $20,000 today.

91 posted on 01/09/2007 5:07:05 PM PST by Amelia (If we hire them, they will come...)
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To: shrinkermd

bump -- later read.


92 posted on 01/09/2007 6:12:31 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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