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America's Lost 3,000 (In Iraq)
Time ^ | December 30, 2006 | NATHAN THORNBURGH

Posted on 12/31/2006 5:24:28 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

The death toll for U.S. soldiers in Iraq has reached 3,000, a number that's both unbearable and, compared to previous military operations, a pittance.

War can make poets. The British World War I soldier Wilfred Owen had lived as a minor disciple of literary giants until he was thrust into the abattoir of Europe's cataclysmic war to discover the brutal theme of his art. "Nor is it about deeds, or lands, nor anything about glory, honour, might, majesty, dominion, or power, except War," he wrote. "My subject is War, and the pity of War." The war invested meaning into his words, giving them a dark significance that still evokes heartbreak.

But can war provide similar meaning to a number? What can now be derived from reaching the grim milestone of 3,000 American dead in Iraq? The public's contemplation of the number should have little to do with the right or the wrong of American occupation, nor with the viability of that seed of peace America is meant to be sowing there. Wars are always paid in blood and numbered in lives lost, the value of that sacrifice doesn't rise or fall like penny stock depending on the popularity of a mission. The 3,000th death is as the first — dying being the pitiable but inextricable consequence of war.

(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: antiamericanism; army; communists; defeatocrats; democrats; gop; iraq; lsm; marinecorps; military; peacecreeps; proterrorist; republicans; saddamites; timelifecnnknew; usefulidiots
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

"Where is the country my dad fought for in the Pacific?"

Swishing into a Starbucks while crying they're entitled to more consideration...


101 posted on 01/01/2007 4:51:44 AM PST by WKUHilltopper
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To: sissyjane

"More than 3,000 American citizens were killed on Sept. 11, 2001. They, along with these American heros will always be remembered for their sacrifice. Time magazine doesn't get it, and neither do the rest of the MSM."

Oh, they get it ok. They just don't want the rest of us to.


102 posted on 01/01/2007 4:53:09 AM PST by WKUHilltopper
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To: matt1234
Are you saying that you cannot live without these companies?

It would be very difficult to live without the sum total off all of the various companies that various causes here have advocated for boycott. Boycott Target because the Salvation Army can't solicit donations out front; Boycott Gap, Lowes and Best Buy because they say "Happy Holidays"; Boycott Citgo because they are a Venezuelan State run company; Don't go to Disney or buy a Ford truck or any number of other products because of their pro-homosexual policies. These are the ones that come to mind right now, but I've seen hundreds of pleas for boycotts here. I'm thinking all of these boycotts have been largely ineffective. But enjoy yourself as you sit at home with your bible, constitution and Federalist papers and nothing else.

Today, I'll be home watching a football game on CBS (heaven forbid) from a TV purchased at Best Buy (shudder), reading books, magazines from boycotted media outlets (oh my!).

103 posted on 01/01/2007 6:07:48 AM PST by Diverdogz
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
We lost more men on D-Day, or similar battles, yet this country can't take it? Where is the country my dad fought for in the Pacific?

This is what's amazing. Not that I don't feel for those loved ones, and not that I want my brother or friends to be lost, but we gave 40,000 American lives to defend Korea!

It's interesting to look historically at our views on life. An ancestor of mine had 18 children by the time she was 40, but lost 5 of them. People lived so close to death--yet didn't spend every ounce of strength on trying to be "safe" as the #1 concern.

Now we live in a society that seems to value life less in many ways, yet the quest for absolutely "safe" it's almost an obsession. Perhaps this has to do with widening of the "no afterlife" view?

I'm not arguing to act unsafely...I'm just commenting that the obsession often leads us away from the best course of action...sometimes risk is required to preserve freedom, etc. Our ancestors knew this.


Another interesting point is to note that the military death rate under Carter--in peacetime--was as high as it is now, in war!

104 posted on 01/01/2007 7:04:09 AM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Future Snake Eater
Sure. Go driving down the street in Philly, then kit up in a Humvee and go on patrol in Baghdad. We'll see which one you think is more dangerous.

Why kit up? If Baghdad is so much safer than Philly, just roll out in a regular car, unarmed, and in street clothes, the same way you would in the States. We'll send a UAV to keep track of your progress, such as it is.

105 posted on 01/01/2007 7:04:19 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Dear Time,

You only print $hit fit to your socialist agenda. While troops fight to defend and spread freedom, you mock them by throwing up 3,000 number because you think that 3,000 died at WTC, that it's time to make nice, and move on? You are fools beyond measure!

It's WWIII against the radical islam! A religion that knows no peace.

Want to write about something upsetting? Something you, and alot of dimorat, and rino politicians should be concerned with? Let's talk about the Mexican border! Just because you need numbers, let me help you...12 murders a day by illegals. Since March 19th, 2003 when we went after Iraq in the war on terror, that is approximately 16,584 Americans murdered by illegals, not to mention all the other crimes they have committed! Oh, so sorry this doesn't fit your politically corect version of the world.

Me and all my FRiends who think for ourselves, we won't be buying your rag period! Perhaps an illegal will shoot you, and put you out of your misery.
106 posted on 01/01/2007 7:09:35 AM PST by Issaquahking (Trust can't be bought)
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To: DustyMoment; newzjunkey
Frankly, as rough as it is to admit, it was largely the result of the troops returning from World War II, where they left their innocence.

Of course, America had flirted with those great social/economic policies by Marx just like everyone else in the developed world, but the social permissiveness surged not just in the upper echelon of society like earlier, but in "the people." This fed the way the Baby Boomers developed, and yes, a flood of radical 22-year-old Baby Boomers could definitely influence the direction of the country.

In a way, we lost in WWII, just not on the battlefield. Or, put another way, it was a Pyrrhic victory--necessary, yet devastating to our country.

107 posted on 01/01/2007 7:11:27 AM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If we can't "take these casualties" we should drop all pretension of being a world power, let alone the superpower.
108 posted on 01/01/2007 7:15:37 AM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

My marine son's DI lectured his battalion on graduation day.

It seems the highest mortality rate for Marines is their first weekend of leave after graduation from boot camp. Not sure if it is true but seems reasonable.


109 posted on 01/01/2007 7:39:20 AM PST by Raycpa
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To: CommieCutter
These Rats are the same people who said that Dad-Bush didn't finish the job the first time and now conveniently go after the son for finishing the job.

They also forgot how terrible the sanctions (you know those sanctions that Bush should have used) were on the individual Iraqi's causing widespread death and disease for everyone but the loyalists.

110 posted on 01/01/2007 7:41:10 AM PST by Raycpa
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To: Gondring
This is what's amazing. Not that I don't feel for those loved ones, and not that I want my brother or friends to be lost, but we gave 40,000 American lives to defend Korea!

It's not the raw number, it's the value behind it, as expressed by those presenting the news. Think about this:

If you spend $400,000 on a beachfront mansion in Southern California, one that's worth much, much more than you paid for it, you don't complain about the price. You still got a good deal, regardless of what a large sum you actually spent.

Conversely, if you are the victim of a scam, and some con man has run up $3,000 or more worth of charges you're stuck with, you don't celebrate. You keep track of the numbers precisely and complain about it often because you're angry about it.

Same principle here. Every single death in Iraq is shown to be stolen. Every new tally shows how screwed we're getting in this deal. How "the con man Bush" is ripping us off. That's the media message, subliminal, but relentless.

111 posted on 01/01/2007 7:56:27 AM PST by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: matt1234

Thanks for the list. Any Corp. that seeks to profit by reporting US military dead in the manner the Times did is not going to get my money.


112 posted on 01/01/2007 8:00:17 AM PST by Lumper20
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
What can now be derived from reaching the grim milestone of 3,000 American dead in Iraq?

In World War Two, the U.S. suffered 405,000 military deaths in a time period of approximately 1640 days.

If, during World War Two, the U.S. news media had insisted on demoralizing the American Home Front each time a “grim milestone” of 1,000 deaths was reached, they would have had to do so EVERY FOUR DAYS.

During World War Two, the U.S. population was 44% of what it is now. In terms of deaths relative to the current population, in World War Two, the “grim milestones” now bemoaned by the liberal news media would have been reached EVERY FORTY TWO HOURS.

What can be derived from such “grim milestones” is that the American liberal news media currently conducts a media campaign to demoralize the American Home Front that, during World War Two, Josef Goebbels would not have imagined his wildest dreams.

What can be derived from such “grim milestones” is that the American liberal news media is now the most valuable force multiplier that America's enemies have.

113 posted on 01/01/2007 8:01:52 AM PST by Polybius
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

INVASION USA
Illegal aliens murder
12 Americans daily
Death toll in 2006 far overshadows total
U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq, Afghanistan
Posted: November 28, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Joseph Farah
© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

WASHINGTON – While the military "quagmire" in Iraq was said to tip the scales of power in the U.S. midterm elections, most Americans have no idea more of their fellow citizens – men, women and children – were murdered this year by illegal aliens than the combined death toll of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan since those military campaigns began.

Though no federal statistics are kept on murders or any other crimes committed by illegal aliens, a number of groups have produced estimates based on data collected from prisons, news reports and independent research.

Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.

Total U.S. troop deaths in Iraq as of last week were reported at 2,863. Total U.S. troop deaths in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uzbekistan during the five years of the Afghan campaign are currently at 289, according to the Department of Defense.

(Story continues below)

But the carnage wrought by illegal alien murderers represents only a fraction of the pool of blood spilled by American citizens as a result of an open border and un-enforced immigration laws.

While King reports 12 Americans are murdered daily by illegal aliens, he says 13 are killed by drunk illegal alien drivers – for another annual death toll of 4,745. That's 23,725 since Sept. 11, 2001.

While no one – in or out of government – tracks all U.S. accidents caused by illegal aliens, the statistical and anecdotal evidence suggests many of last year's 42,636 road deaths involved illegal aliens.

A report by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Study found 20 percent of fatal accidents involve at least one driver who lacks a valid license. In California, another study showed that those who have never held a valid license are about five times more likely to be involved in a fatal road accident than licensed drivers.

Statistically, that makes them an even greater danger on the road than drivers whose licenses have been suspended or revoked – and nearly as dangerous as drunk drivers.

King also reports eight American children are victims of sexual abuse by illegal aliens every day – a total of 2,920 annually.

Based on a one-year in-depth study, Deborah Schurman-Kauflin of the Violent Crimes Institute of Atlanta estimates there are about 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an average of four victims each. She analyzed 1,500 cases from January 1999 through April 2006 that included serial rapes, serial murders, sexual homicides and child molestation committed by illegal immigrants.

As the number of illegal aliens in the U.S. increases, so does the number of American victims.

According to Edwin Rubenstien, president of ESR Research Economic Consultants, in Indianapolis in 1980, federal and state correctional facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens. But at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in all U.S. jails and prisons.

While the federal government doesn't track illegal alien murders, illegal alien rapes or illegal alien drunk driving deaths, it has studied illegal aliens incarcerated in U.S. prisons.

In April 2005, the Government Accountability Office released a report on a study of 55,322 illegal aliens incarcerated in federal, state, and local facilities during 2003. It found the following:

* The 55,322 illegal aliens studied represented a total of 459,614 arrests – some eight arrests per illegal alien;

* Their arrests represented a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses – some 13 offenses per illegal alien;

* 36 percent had been arrested at least five times before.

"While the vast majority of illegal aliens are decent people who work hard and are only trying to make a better life for themselves and their families, (something you or I would probably do if we were in their place), it is also a fact that a disproportionately high percentage of illegal aliens are criminals and sexual predators," states Peter Wagner, author of a new report called "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration." "That is part of the dark side of illegal immigration and when we allow the 'good' in we get the 'bad' along with them. The question is, how much 'bad' is acceptable and at what price?"

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103


114 posted on 01/01/2007 9:24:02 AM PST by Cinnamon
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To: Cinnamon

Mine the borders!


115 posted on 01/01/2007 9:43:11 AM PST by TampaDude (If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the PROBLEM!!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

How come I don't see any estimates published by TIME of the number of bad guys we've eliminated ?

The impression they seem to want to create is that only Americans are dying and no terrorists are being eliminated.

Of course the subliminal message being given is we are there for no reason at all and that nothing is being accomplished.


116 posted on 01/01/2007 9:49:52 AM PST by SirLinksalot
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
We lost more men on D-Day, or similar battles, yet this country can't take it? Where is the country my dad fought for in the Pacific?

Good question. 3,000 dead - the media is telling us the sky is falling.

The fact is, we could easily sustain this rate of dead and causalities for a long time (and something the media doesn't tell - were it not for our training and technology, the death toll would be much higher, but these days, soldiers have a much better chance of living than in wars past).

Of course, I can't ignore the fact that our nation has become much wimpier than in times past. All the government has to do is start talking about terrorism and a lot of people get scared easily. It's pathetic how easily people are scared these days.
117 posted on 01/01/2007 11:25:53 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm

There were 2503 people murdered in California in 2005 alone.


118 posted on 01/01/2007 12:36:17 PM PST by Robert Lomax
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To: AnAmericanMother

Time editors are not ignorant. They are playing on the emotions of an ignorant American public to stir up trouble for our military in Iraq.


119 posted on 01/01/2007 1:05:58 PM PST by conservative blonde (Let's call the Jr. Senator from Illinois by his full name, Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
On June 29, 1950, Democrat Harry Truman held a press conference in which he said he was sending our men into Korea to fight a "police action" against "bandits"

Within 6 months almost 14000 Americans lost their lives for Korean freedom.

3475 Americans lost their lives for Korean freedom in one month (November, 1950).

By the time he stepped down as president, about 2 1/2 years later, almost 30,000 Americans had died for Korean freedom.

Can anyone imagine the press attacks on Bush if 14,000 men and women had lost their lives in the first six months in Iraq?

120 posted on 01/01/2007 3:00:33 PM PST by syriacus (30,000 US deaths in Korea in 2 1/2 years under Truman (Jul, 1950 - Dec, 1952))
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