Reunited At Last! This Is David, The Brother I Lost Just 1,000 Years Ago

The Guardian (UK) ^ | 12-31-2006 | Robin McKie

[blam]

Reunited at last! This is David, the brother I lost just 1,000 years ago

Gene study is throwing a new light on our nation's history - and our personal ancestry, reports science editor Robin McKie

Sunday December 31, 2006
The Observer (UK)

A scientific revolution is taking place in the study of our ancient past. Once the preserve of academics who analysed prehistoric stones and crumbling parchment, the subject has been transformed by the study of our genes by scientists who are using the blood of the living to determine the actions of men and women centuries ago. In the process, a mass of fascinating information about our predecessors has been revealed, from the physical appearance of Britain's first Stone Age settlers to the impact that invading Romans, Saxons and Normans had on our bloodline.

The approach can turn history into an extraordinary, personal business, as I found when I started researching a book on the subject. I have often been asked if I am related to the Guardian writer David McKie. The distinguished columnist and former deputy editor has my surname, though David comes from north London while I am Glaswegian. Little common ancestry there, it seemed. But now David has been revealed to be my long-lost 'brother'. Our DNA shows that, between AD1000 and 1400, either in Ireland or Scotland, our lineages shared a common ancestor, a grandfather of multiple 'greatness'. Even better, that ancestor turns out to have been a direct descendant of the Irish king Niall of the Nine Hostages, who created a vast fifth-century dynasty around modern Strabane. David and I are related to a notorious Irish warlord. Not bad for a pair of old Fleet Street hacks.

[blam]

I still get a kick out of the item in post #8, my ex-wife would always tell me, "you never want to go anywhere." Those Cheddar Boys, in 9,000 years, never ventured more than two miles from home. LOL

[McGavin999]

Did you ever read Sarum? It follows a couple of British families through thousands of years, beginning in the stone age right up to 1940's and shows their rise and fall and the falicy of "superiority". Facinating and very well done.

[blam]

"Did you ever read Sarum?"

No. Maybe I will, thanks.

[McGavin999]

You'll be glad you did. It's very well written, and strangely believable.

[justa-hairyape]

Synthesizing the genetic evidence with linguistics, archaeology and the historical record, Oppenheimer shows how long-term Scandinavian trade and immigration contributed the remaining quarter – mostly before the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons. These migrations may have introduced the earliest forms of English.

My Celtic ancestors helped to clear out some of those Danish invaders residing in north west Scotland about 1,000 years ago. From what I understand, the Engle and Saxon Germans actually came from Jutland Germany which is the peninsula that extends from Germany up into the North Sea. Perhaps they had more similarities to Danes then the mainland Germans. Would like to see similar DNA work done on the early German tribes. Some of our legends come from them. The Unicorn. The Werewolf. Those early German tribes contained some incredible warriors. They conquered most of Western Europe after the Romans retreated. Perhaps the common incorrect assumptions that the Saxons and Engles basically exterminated the native Celtic peoples of England were based on the fierce warrior abilities these Germans possessed. Historically the first Germans were originally invited onto the island to work as mercenary/allies for specific warring Celtic tribes. Just as the Romans originally were. Hindsight would say those were two big errors by the Celts, but DNA seems to show that those errors did not last very long. Either that or perhaps Celtic women have some, um, desirable qualities.

[justa-hairyape]

Oops. Should read north east Scotland. Not north west.

[muawiyah]

Fries (from Friesland) is the only English cognate language.

These are the "Angels" ~ .

The predecessor language group is called Old West Gothic.

[justa-hairyape]

The Ui Neill Y-chromosome was originally discovered by scientists at Trinity College, Dublin, and was found in 23 per cent of all men in north-west Ireland. Intriguingly, 17 per cent of men in central and west Scotland have it, as do 2 per cent of US males. The Irish, and later the Scots, were great travellers, so that around three million men worldwide now possess this chromosome.

Interesting. So approximately 1 out of every 500 males on the planet have significant Irish or Scoti genes ? Not bad for a small island tribal group.

[SunkenCiv]

thanks to Cronos for most of these cool graphics:

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cfford/Indoeuropean%20language%20family%20tree.jpg

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~cpercy/hell/images/indoeuro.jpg

http://www.bartleby.com/61/JPG/tree.jpg

http://www.sciencenews.org/20020525/a1685_1903.jpg

[SunkenCiv]

Niall's nine hostages must have been nine women who were pregnant a lot. :')

Irish History Takes a Paternity Test
ScienceNOW Daily News | 21 December 2005 | Michael Schirber
Posted on 12/27/2005 3:10:30 AM EST by neverdem
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1547473/posts

Scientists discover most fertile Irish male
Reuters on Yahoo | 1/17/06 | Siobhan Kennedy
Posted on 01/17/2006 12:16:45 PM EST by NormsRevenge
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1559642/posts

If New York's Irish Claim Nobility, Science May Back Up the Blarney
NY Times | January 18, 2006 | NICHOLAS WADE
Posted on 01/18/2006 12:53:58 AM EST by neverdem
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1560100/posts

and:

The Quest for the $1,000 Human Genome
NY Terrorist Tip Sheet | July 18, 2006 | NICHOLAS WADE
Posted on 07/18/2006 12:51:24 AM EDT by neverdem
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1667602/posts

The Wide, Wild World of Genetic Testing
NY Times | September 12, 2006 | ANDREW POLLACK
Posted on 09/15/2006 1:11:28 AM EDT by neverdem
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1701849/posts

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Blam.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[justa-hairyape]

Very interesting graphics. Who spoke Celtic Manx ?

[justa-hairyape]

Thanks for the info. Cannot look at a modern map of Germany to figure this stuff out. The Jutes apparently came from Jutland. Some of them were reported to have shown up in the British Isles. Saxons were a Germanic tribe from north Germany and the Angles were the Frisians who were a Germanic tribe that came from what is now known as the northern Netherlands. The following maps seem to indicate that.

Germanic Kingdoms and East Roman Empire 526-600

From The Historical Atlas by William R. Shepherd, 1911.
Of course this old map will probably need some modification after the DNA analysis are more fully complete.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

I am convinced there is an inborn difference in the way conservatives think from liberals. Can anyone shed light?

[Justa]

"but that the peoples of the English heartland fell victim to genocide by the Anglo-Saxon hordes during the fifth and sixth centuries. Now Stephen Oppenheimer’s groundbreaking genetic research has revealed that the ‘Anglo-Saxon invasion’ contributed only a tiny fraction to the English gene pool. In fact, three quarters of English people can trace an unbroken line of genetic descent through their parental genes from settlers arriving long before the introduction of farming.

If the population contracted by means other than conquest I would think that could make a case for catastrophism. The fifth-to-sixth century dating coincides with some evidence to that effect which you've previously posted.

[kellynch]

Oh wow. I need to find that book.

Have you read "Albion's Seed?" I've heard it's outstanding (expensive, but outstanding).

[Drango]

I can highly recommend http://www.familytreedna.com/ for having your DNA done. They are the largest and one of the first DNA testing firms...Click on the link and in the upper right hand corner put in your last name to see if there is a surname project. I found a lost relative!

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Yep...the Scots and the Irish's sons and daughters were one of their major exports over the centuries...and I kid you not...especially the last 300 years. The poverty of Ireland, the Clearances in Scotland and the British practice of transportation (as an alternative to hanging) helped somewhat, too....

[blam]

"If the population contracted by means other than conquest I would think that could make a case for catastrophism. The fifth-to-sixth century dating coincides with some evidence to that effect which you've previously posted."

The Dark Ages: Were They Darker Than We Imagined?

[RightWhale]

A man needs just a few clods of earth to get by with relative happiness in life, and even fewer afterwards.
--de Montaigne