Posted on 12/31/2006 8:41:18 AM PST by Gamecock
The facade is beginning to peel back from the so-called ministry of Southern California Pastor Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Church" and "The Purpose Driven Life." Unfortunately, many among his ample flock have far too much invested in him, both emotionally and otherwise, to admit their mistakes and cut their losses.
Moreover, he certainly faces no possibility of in-depth scrutiny from the "mainstream media," as his brand of "Christianity" poses little or no threat to their liberal social agenda. Yet to the degree that anyone at all questions Warren as anything less than authentic, his response is thoroughly telling as to his true character, as well as the nature of his "ministry."
Joseph Farah, editor-in-chief of the Internet news site, "World Net Daily," opened a can of worms by calling Warren to account over his fawning praise of the terrorist stronghold of Syria. While there, Warren lauded the brutish dictatorship as "peaceful," claiming that the Islamist government does not officially sanction "extremism of any kind."
When confronted by Farah, an American of Middle Eastern decent who knows too well the history of horror and tragedy faced by persecuted Christians in that region of the world, Warren immediately denied ever making such statements.
Subsequently, Farah offered as evidence a "YouTube" video from Saddleback Church, where Warren is pastor, inarguably proving Farah's statement. So Warren's church simply pulled the video from circulation and continued the denial, being unaware that a copy of the video file had been downloaded and is still in circulation. Warren's follow-up to this inconvenient circumstance is perhaps most telling of all.
In a concurrent set of moves, Warren sent a seemingly conciliatory e-mail to Farah while distributing another to his "flock," in which he characterized Farah's pursuit of the incident as nothing less than "doing Satan's job for him." Throughout this sorry episode, Farah's only error has been to suggest that Warren's disturbing behavior represents some new departure from consistency.
In fact, Warren is actually being entirely consistent. Whether his audience might be Farah himself, Syrian despot Bashar Assad or the Saddleback congregation, Warren tells each exactly what he believes they want to hear.
This pattern is the essence of what Warren is and what has made him so "successful" from a worldly perspective.
For those among his congregation who sincerely want to know the truth, the evidence is ample. Unfortunately, it always has been available, and any present "confusion" merely results from past decisions to ignore that evidence.
For example, his letter to the congregation decrying the "attack" and making his defense by invoking Scripture is barely four paragraphs long. Yet in those four paragraphs, he employs three different "translations" of the Bible. Why, it must be asked, does he not trust any single translation to convey God's message to humanity?
Could it be that he has his own message and agenda to advance, and that he has found it very convenient to utilize different wordings of different passages, not because they better convey God's purpose, but rather his own?
It would be better to ask, could his motivation possibly be anything else?
As Farah has refused to let this indefensible situation simply drop, Warren has responded by taking it to another realm, making personal attacks against Farah in an interview with the magazine, "Christianity Today." But once again, by so doing, Warren succeeds in revealing much more about himself than about his adversary.
Warren, who has not to date been known as any sort of standard bearer for Christian principle in the political arena, decries Farah (whose societal and moral views fall unambiguously on the right) and his ideological allies as part of a wrongful "political" encroachment on the faith.
In contrast, Warren's forays into the political realm prove, not surprisingly, to be decidedly leftist. At a recent conference on the African AIDS epidemic, Warren invited the very liberal Senator Barak Obama (D-Ill.) as a keynote speaker. He justified the inclusion of Obama, who avidly supports abortion and same-sex "marriage," on the grounds that Obama offered a worldly solution to ostensibly curb the spread of the disease through condom usage.
The morally ambiguous message conveyed by the advocacy of condoms, along with their inherent unreliability, make them nothing less than iconic to the abortion industry, which fully understands how much new business they generate. In the face of such pragmatism, one has to wonder what will be next. Perhaps Warren's church will sponsor a "designated driver's ministry" at every bar in its locale.
Appalling though Obama's inclusion in the conference may be, it is nonetheless entirely consistent with Warren's behavior from the beginning.
Leading a megachurch in the culturally disintegrating landscape of Southern California, Warren certainly knows that his prospects of maximizing the "flock" will be greatly enhanced as long as he shows proper deference to the real religion of the area, "political correctness."
In this, his Christian populism movement has proven to be far more palatable to the God-hating secularists of the surrounding communities than such stodgy, old-fashioned and "intolerant" notions as "Thou Shalt Not." And the Warren influence has been predictable wherever it can be found.
If other churches that abide in the Warren philosophy, such as Chicago's gargantuan "Willow Creek," were to truly uphold Christian values among their enormous congregations, they would certainly be a constant "thorn in the side" of their surrounding populace, acculturated into the modernism as those communities certainly are. Yet an amazing degree of compatibility and congeniality exists between the Warren Church model and the social structures of Chicago and Southern California.
The tradeoff between true Christian principle and acceptability to the locals is apparently worth the spiritual sacrifice it entails, with expanding parking lots, increasingly lavish facilities and, of course, fuller collection plates bearing witness. Meanwhile, such churches offer ever less of a worthwhile and much-needed alternative to the ailing world around them.
Ultimately, Warren gives conformist Christians, wearied from their ongoing battle with a world that is increasingly hostile to true Christian faith, an apparent "out" by offering a version that the modern world can find more acceptable while remaining in its present spiritual darkness.
Many among Warren's vast following have made the mistake, in light of his "purpose driven" ministering, of presuming, at the heart of the movement, a Christ-driven purpose. Yet as Warren's real character continues to be revealed, it is becoming apparent that members of that following are presuming too much.
(Christopher G. Adamo is a freelance writer and staff writer for the New Media Alliance. He lives in southeastern Wyoming and has been active in local and state politics for many years.)
You seem to forget that God calls us to use discernment...and that we are accountable to one another. When pastors fail to rightly divide God's Word, and do so as publically as Rick Warren, we, as members of the Body of Christ, are justified in calling him to account and to repent.
You said -- "As scripture does not say this it is imprudent to make such unfounded claims, especially when they're given as a way of a bye for us taking up what WE have been tasked with."
I did not say that the church should refrain from doing this. What I said was that it had failed in doing this. So, no..., the church should. BUT, here's the thing -- at a certain point in time, the church will be taken up in the Rapture and will no longer be here. And so, the church will *no longer* be *able* to witness on this earth (at that coming time). It's gone. The Jews are, then, the servants and witness to the coming Kingdom of the Messiah.
God will not be without a witness on this earth, since the church has been taken up and out of this world. These 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel (as name in Revelation, being 12,000 from each) -- will be that witness. They are called the servants of God, as as such, they will *definitely* be proclaiming the Gospel message and the coming Messiah and His Kingdom.
Revelation 7:2-8
2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea,
3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."
4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
Revelation 14:1-5
1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of loud thunder. And I heard the sound of harpists playing their harps.
3 They sang as it were a new song before the throne, before the four living creatures, and the elders; and no one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no deceit, for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Regards,
Star Traveler
No question...but the fact remains that every creature is to worship God...and in the End, even non-believers will worship Him.
WND has a link to it (the audio part, at least), in several of their "Warren articles" (they have been investigating him for over a month, and they're not about to let up, from what I gather). The link is in several of their articles -- find one, and there'll be links to the others at the bottom of the page. (There's generally at least one article linked on the wnd.com front page.)
From what I can tell, when Warren is involved with groups other than Saddleback he isn't wearing his pastoral hat and it seems people want to put Warren in a box but Warren isn't interested in being in a box. Because of his other interests he needs to be careful how his actions outside his Saddleback role looks to others.
Maybe you should read some of the other verses where we are commanded to judge, especially judging public teaching about Christ. It also says not many of you should presume to be teachers... does that mean none of us are called to be teachers? I'm certainly willing to be judged by the sword I weild. It's the only way to go.
We are not to judge one's spiritual condition (we might make speculation but that's all it is), whether one is saved or not, without any admission one way or the other by the person in question. However, we are commanded to judge (e.g. make judgements on or discern) truth and error in what is being taught in the name of Christ. So don't try the prooftexting thing with us.
So far, all I have seen are the pineapples on Warren's shirts.
Well I just don't see him doing the blatant sins, and I think he's got himself convinced that that means he's done pretty good. What he doesn't see is his pride and self-aggrandizing, as well as the false doctrine he purveys to all religions and denominations without having to change a thing to make it palatable to all.
HOwever if he keeps hardening his neck, he's going to have the Lord hit him pretty hard to get him back on track. I do think he really loves Jesus and thinks he's doing what's right, and has lost the ability to discern what right and not-quite-right is. So being a couple degrees off the true heading, he eventually ends up someplace totally else than where the Lord would want him to go.
So the next expansion program is probably a drive-through.
And the lemons he sells in every bookstore, department store, website, and in every sermon.
Praise God we have found a Christ-centered church. The difference is amazing. I'd forgotten what it was like to hear God's Word preached.
Exactly, he's a charismatic man and has gotten quite a few followers on his charm but it is all about him really, nothing else.
Thank you. Spiritual abuse *is* devastating. Had we been "younger" Christians, it could very well driven us away from any sort of Christian fellowship. We have found a truly Christ-centered church, where the Bible is preached and the name of Jesus lifted on high.
I understand you didn't say this specifically, and I apologized if my post implied I thought you had. However, I HAVE heard a growing number in the church discout what we SHOULD be doing by claiming, essentially, that it doesn't matter because God will take over.
There are a couple of problems with that. Firstly, it's unscriptural to state definitively that the 144,000 will fan out across the world as you have, and to claim they will evangelize the world...that is NOT stated in scripture...and I believe it is dangerous for us to even consider lifting our hands from that plow expecting that the field will be plowed without us.
What I said was that it had failed in doing this.
The Western church is in the process of dying...but we can't let that stop those of us who aren't willing to discard the gospel or our mandate.
BUT, here's the thing -- at a certain point in time, the church will be taken up in the Rapture and will no longer be here. And so, the church will *no longer* be *able* to witness on this earth (at that coming time)..
Again, I think it's dangerous to adopt the perspective that we aren't going to succeed because God is going to zip us out of the way before we fulfill what He has told us to do...but even if that were to happen it shouldn't be taking any place in our plans. It gives far to easy an excuse to not be active in missions and evangelism. That's probably why PDL churches are looking for worldly "hooks" to bring in people...if they preached repentance, the cross and missions and evangelism, which doesn't sit well with the world they fear they wouldn't be popular. Of course our call isn't to worry about being popular, it's to do the will of God.
God will not be without a witness on this earth, since the church has been taken up and out of this world.>P?The assumption here is that the rapture will take place prior to the completion of the Great Commission. Do you know for a fact that will be the case? I believe if you're honest you'll have to answer no, you don't know that will be the case.
These 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel (as name in Revelation, being 12,000 from each) -- will be that witness. They are called the servants of God, as as such, they will *definitely* be proclaiming the Gospel message and the coming Messiah and His Kingdom.
Again you make a "definitive" claim that is scripturally unsupported. They MAY proclaim the gospel, but scripture NEVER refers to the 144,000 as evangelists or missionaries...that is a man made fabrication. They are referred to as servants. As servants of the Most High God the 144,000 will be witnesses on this earth...but that does not make them missionaries or evangelists.
The Western church has adopted many unscriptural teachings beyond just the PDL sort. We need to make sure we let the Spirit guide our eyes in the scripture and not the teachings of men designed to tickle the ears.
Blessings.
Abstinence Alone Protects Fully Against HIV, Ugandan First Lady Tells Youth LifeSite ^ | December 6, 2006 |
Gudrun Schultz MUKONO, Uganda, December 6, 2006
(LifeSiteNews.com) - Janet Museveni, First Lady of Uganda, has continued her strong support for the country’s successful abstinence campaign against HIV/AIDS with a statement encouraging youth to live lives of “love, faith and purity,” New Vision reported December 2. "I would not be caught advising you to take any shortcuts or compromise your lives by using any device invented by man, such as condoms, in order to facilitate any desire to go against God's clear plan for your life,” Mrs. Museveni told students at the Uganda Christian University, Mukono, for World AIDS Day. “God's plan for your life is that you should honour your body because it is His temple." Warning the young people that they should not be complacent as HIV infection rates rise, Mrs. Museveni asked them to encourage other students to abstain from premarital sex.
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/dec/06120601.html
Please explain to me why Rick Warren REFUSES to do what God wants for all of us - a pure life, NO AIDS, NO emotional issues from sleeping around? Why does Warren advocate the OPPOSITE and expect to be respected and lauded for conforming to THIS world of cultural depravity?
Rick Warren tries to profit by selling cheap grace with an uncertain eternal life.
IMO this is treading on very thin ice, as should be immediately obvious to anyone with even a perfunctory understanding of the original gospel.
I find it particulary chilling to observe this man, with his "worldly salvation plan", aligning himself with a "man of great charisma" -- someone who can woo nearly any and every crowd with little if any effort -- a man who is (pardon the expression) "half-christian/half-muslim", who is, like Warren, apparently of a mind to "unite the world as one." (note square quotes to denote the essence of the message, not a quote-literal.)
I am not comforted when I see him (Warren) being sponsored jointly by the most prominent media magnates (Rupert Murdoch) and the U.S. government (the Department of Defense):
Note too, his attachment to the philosophy of Joseph Schumpeter, who is oft considered a marxist/socialist (and, oft-denied, which is in itself curious). For giggles, check out all the conjunctions between Schumpeter and Gramsci. Their names turn up so many times in close conjunction with each other (when examining the results of a web search on both names) that one almost gets the image of two stars orbiting each other.
Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church and author of The Purpose-Driven Life, will be preaching to a global audience over Christmas thanks to Rupert Murdoch and the U.S. Defense Department.
I'll close by mentioning that on a sheerly "media-aware" basis, the one person that I am most reminded of when I see Warren in "full battle dress" (his "Ugly American" costume, of Hawaiian shirt, Bermuda shorts, and sandals), is none other than Michael Moore, whom also embraces a "jes' fo'ks" affectation via similar haberdashery techniques.
Frankly, I trust one as much as I trust the other.
Aiiieeee... "note square quotes" indeed!
Better yet, note fatigue-typing. I obviously meant to say "scare quotes".
Sleep... must sleep....
Great idea!
Now, do the REST of us get to list the subjects we'd like to censor YOU from discussing for a month?????
I mean, fair is fair, right?
Sheesh...
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