I understand you didn't say this specifically, and I apologized if my post implied I thought you had. However, I HAVE heard a growing number in the church discout what we SHOULD be doing by claiming, essentially, that it doesn't matter because God will take over.
There are a couple of problems with that. Firstly, it's unscriptural to state definitively that the 144,000 will fan out across the world as you have, and to claim they will evangelize the world...that is NOT stated in scripture...and I believe it is dangerous for us to even consider lifting our hands from that plow expecting that the field will be plowed without us.
What I said was that it had failed in doing this.
The Western church is in the process of dying...but we can't let that stop those of us who aren't willing to discard the gospel or our mandate.
BUT, here's the thing -- at a certain point in time, the church will be taken up in the Rapture and will no longer be here. And so, the church will *no longer* be *able* to witness on this earth (at that coming time)..
Again, I think it's dangerous to adopt the perspective that we aren't going to succeed because God is going to zip us out of the way before we fulfill what He has told us to do...but even if that were to happen it shouldn't be taking any place in our plans. It gives far to easy an excuse to not be active in missions and evangelism. That's probably why PDL churches are looking for worldly "hooks" to bring in people...if they preached repentance, the cross and missions and evangelism, which doesn't sit well with the world they fear they wouldn't be popular. Of course our call isn't to worry about being popular, it's to do the will of God.
God will not be without a witness on this earth, since the church has been taken up and out of this world.>P?The assumption here is that the rapture will take place prior to the completion of the Great Commission. Do you know for a fact that will be the case? I believe if you're honest you'll have to answer no, you don't know that will be the case.
These 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel (as name in Revelation, being 12,000 from each) -- will be that witness. They are called the servants of God, as as such, they will *definitely* be proclaiming the Gospel message and the coming Messiah and His Kingdom.
Again you make a "definitive" claim that is scripturally unsupported. They MAY proclaim the gospel, but scripture NEVER refers to the 144,000 as evangelists or missionaries...that is a man made fabrication. They are referred to as servants. As servants of the Most High God the 144,000 will be witnesses on this earth...but that does not make them missionaries or evangelists.
The Western church has adopted many unscriptural teachings beyond just the PDL sort. We need to make sure we let the Spirit guide our eyes in the scripture and not the teachings of men designed to tickle the ears.
Blessings.
Well, I understand where you're coming from in that you do not want to do anyting that will cause people to back off from what the church should be doing in spreading the Gospel. And, of course they should be doing that.
But, saying that I think the church is a failure and is going to be a continuing failure in the future is simply stating what I'm observing (and also from what I understand from the Bible).
The church is failing here in the U.S. And you can see it in some of the biggest congregations, in that they're accomodating the surrounding culture and not giving the Gospel message. Even Jesus questioned whether there would be faith when He returned.
As far as it being directly stated for those 144,000 to be evangelists -- well, they would be derelict in their faithfulness to Christ if they weren't (and they sure seem to be a few notches up in their faith). They seem to be a very special group, specially selected by God. It's hard to believe that they aren't going to be doing so -- given the description that we have. I have to conclude from what I'm given that this is going to be the case.
And that does tie in with what I was saying about the Rapture. Do I *know for sure* that the Rapture will take place before that time? Well, we have the testimony of Scripture and you have to take it from there. Is it inerrant in all that it says? I say yes (and the Bible says yes). Can we analyze what it says and derive what we have about the Trinity? I believe we can -- and the church has. This is just an example of deriving something, even though it's not *directly* stated.
So, likewise, can I be sure that this is true about the Rapture. I have to say I do believe it's true -- as long as words have meaning and as long as it's true in Scripture (which I bellieve it is).
This kind of question goes back into a lot of other things -- when you ask if one can know for a fact that "this" is so (or if "that" is so). You start getting into the case for the Inerrancy of Scripture and that the words mean what they say, and that God does intend for you to study Scripture and understand the things that He's written -- so that you can state with assurance that something is so.
I do believe I can know this for a fact -- not from myself, but from God's word, knowing that it's inerrant and has been carefully crafted for us to know and understand these things. What kind of "comfort" did the Apostle Paul say it was, in regards to the Rapture (in Thessalonians)? You can consider that, and other things, too, in regards to the Rapture.
I don't want to turn this into a discussion of all the proofs for the Rapture and for a pre-trib Rapture, because it would take longer than the time I have left on this earth ... :-)
It seems to be under attack these days, but that's okay. I'm convinced of it from what I know of the Bible. And I've read a lot from others on the subject, too.
It seems that one thing (that one may talk about) ties into another, which ties into another -- and pretty soon, you have a "tapestry" of things that tie all together. And that's what it appears to be here, to me. It's a complete tapestry of things, from the Bible, in regards to the end times and the sequence of events and what will happen. It pretty much all ties together.
At the same time, I know that there are many others who may disagree with it. That's fine. Someone is going to be right and someone is going to be wrong. Regardless of that, we still should spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ for those who don't know. That day is coming quickly when we will see these things happening and will no longer have to argue one side or the other. It will be done. It will have happened and that will settle the arguments. I think that day is mighty close -- right at hand.
Regards,
Star Traveler