Well, I understand where you're coming from in that you do not want to do anyting that will cause people to back off from what the church should be doing in spreading the Gospel. And, of course they should be doing that.
But, saying that I think the church is a failure and is going to be a continuing failure in the future is simply stating what I'm observing (and also from what I understand from the Bible).
The church is failing here in the U.S. And you can see it in some of the biggest congregations, in that they're accomodating the surrounding culture and not giving the Gospel message. Even Jesus questioned whether there would be faith when He returned.
As far as it being directly stated for those 144,000 to be evangelists -- well, they would be derelict in their faithfulness to Christ if they weren't (and they sure seem to be a few notches up in their faith). They seem to be a very special group, specially selected by God. It's hard to believe that they aren't going to be doing so -- given the description that we have. I have to conclude from what I'm given that this is going to be the case.
And that does tie in with what I was saying about the Rapture. Do I *know for sure* that the Rapture will take place before that time? Well, we have the testimony of Scripture and you have to take it from there. Is it inerrant in all that it says? I say yes (and the Bible says yes). Can we analyze what it says and derive what we have about the Trinity? I believe we can -- and the church has. This is just an example of deriving something, even though it's not *directly* stated.
So, likewise, can I be sure that this is true about the Rapture. I have to say I do believe it's true -- as long as words have meaning and as long as it's true in Scripture (which I bellieve it is).
This kind of question goes back into a lot of other things -- when you ask if one can know for a fact that "this" is so (or if "that" is so). You start getting into the case for the Inerrancy of Scripture and that the words mean what they say, and that God does intend for you to study Scripture and understand the things that He's written -- so that you can state with assurance that something is so.
I do believe I can know this for a fact -- not from myself, but from God's word, knowing that it's inerrant and has been carefully crafted for us to know and understand these things. What kind of "comfort" did the Apostle Paul say it was, in regards to the Rapture (in Thessalonians)? You can consider that, and other things, too, in regards to the Rapture.
I don't want to turn this into a discussion of all the proofs for the Rapture and for a pre-trib Rapture, because it would take longer than the time I have left on this earth ... :-)
It seems to be under attack these days, but that's okay. I'm convinced of it from what I know of the Bible. And I've read a lot from others on the subject, too.
It seems that one thing (that one may talk about) ties into another, which ties into another -- and pretty soon, you have a "tapestry" of things that tie all together. And that's what it appears to be here, to me. It's a complete tapestry of things, from the Bible, in regards to the end times and the sequence of events and what will happen. It pretty much all ties together.
At the same time, I know that there are many others who may disagree with it. That's fine. Someone is going to be right and someone is going to be wrong. Regardless of that, we still should spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ for those who don't know. That day is coming quickly when we will see these things happening and will no longer have to argue one side or the other. It will be done. It will have happened and that will settle the arguments. I think that day is mighty close -- right at hand.
Regards,
Star Traveler
"Tribulation" is such a relative term, when you get right down to it.
Over the decades, I've lost track of how many people have assured me that we ("they"?) will be "spared" from "the tribulation" -- "taken up", as it were, "before things get really bad."
Well, be that as it may, I do have a benchmark for a level of "tribulation" that God has established to be something He has NOT prevented His people from having to endure.
In fact, over the ages, it's happened repeatedly, on average, perhaps once per generation, somewhere in the world (and in many cases, nearly everywhere in the "civilized" world).
From the Romans and their lion-feed-fests to the Spanish Inquisition to the Holocaust, God's people have had to endure unspeakable horror.
Now, maybe "THE (Great) Tribulation" will be something even WORSE than those "other" tribulations. But frankly I take no comfort in that.
To tell me that, well, there's nothing to prevent us from having to endure something along the lines of the Romans, or the Inquistion, or the Holocaust -- but, we WILL be spared the "really" bad stuff, I mean, hey, get real. How much worse can it really get? On an individual basis?
When your family is destroyed, when you are slowly tortured to death, by "human" monstered skilled in the practice of prolonged torture... hey, that's bad enough, plenty bad enough. To be "spared" from something "worse", is of zero consolation.
But then, there's a subtle undercurrent, often embraced, yet rarely voiced, which goes something along the lines of, "God would NEVER let AMERICAN Christians go through the REALLY bad stuff!"
That's what I politely term "whistling past the graveyard" -- a variation on the "It CAN'T happen HERE!" theme.
It's nonsense, with absolutely no scriptural foundation.
Or, are we to accept the idea that, "In Christ there is no East or West... but, there IS 'them', versus us AMERICAN Christians"?
No, I don't think so.
OK, so maybe we'll all be "taken up" before things are bad, really really bad -- but, we have an established benchmark of the kind of "bad" that DOESN'T approach "that" level of bad. And I don't think that's any comfort to anyone who thinks it through rationally.
What relevance does this have to the topic at hand? Oh, probably little to none. It's just that when I see people explaining how they're gonna get "Raptured" before things get really bad, I feel obligated to point out just HOW bad "less" than "really" bad really IS.