Posted on 12/31/2006 8:41:18 AM PST by Gamecock
The facade is beginning to peel back from the so-called ministry of Southern California Pastor Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Church" and "The Purpose Driven Life." Unfortunately, many among his ample flock have far too much invested in him, both emotionally and otherwise, to admit their mistakes and cut their losses.
Moreover, he certainly faces no possibility of in-depth scrutiny from the "mainstream media," as his brand of "Christianity" poses little or no threat to their liberal social agenda. Yet to the degree that anyone at all questions Warren as anything less than authentic, his response is thoroughly telling as to his true character, as well as the nature of his "ministry."
Joseph Farah, editor-in-chief of the Internet news site, "World Net Daily," opened a can of worms by calling Warren to account over his fawning praise of the terrorist stronghold of Syria. While there, Warren lauded the brutish dictatorship as "peaceful," claiming that the Islamist government does not officially sanction "extremism of any kind."
When confronted by Farah, an American of Middle Eastern decent who knows too well the history of horror and tragedy faced by persecuted Christians in that region of the world, Warren immediately denied ever making such statements.
Subsequently, Farah offered as evidence a "YouTube" video from Saddleback Church, where Warren is pastor, inarguably proving Farah's statement. So Warren's church simply pulled the video from circulation and continued the denial, being unaware that a copy of the video file had been downloaded and is still in circulation. Warren's follow-up to this inconvenient circumstance is perhaps most telling of all.
In a concurrent set of moves, Warren sent a seemingly conciliatory e-mail to Farah while distributing another to his "flock," in which he characterized Farah's pursuit of the incident as nothing less than "doing Satan's job for him." Throughout this sorry episode, Farah's only error has been to suggest that Warren's disturbing behavior represents some new departure from consistency.
In fact, Warren is actually being entirely consistent. Whether his audience might be Farah himself, Syrian despot Bashar Assad or the Saddleback congregation, Warren tells each exactly what he believes they want to hear.
This pattern is the essence of what Warren is and what has made him so "successful" from a worldly perspective.
For those among his congregation who sincerely want to know the truth, the evidence is ample. Unfortunately, it always has been available, and any present "confusion" merely results from past decisions to ignore that evidence.
For example, his letter to the congregation decrying the "attack" and making his defense by invoking Scripture is barely four paragraphs long. Yet in those four paragraphs, he employs three different "translations" of the Bible. Why, it must be asked, does he not trust any single translation to convey God's message to humanity?
Could it be that he has his own message and agenda to advance, and that he has found it very convenient to utilize different wordings of different passages, not because they better convey God's purpose, but rather his own?
It would be better to ask, could his motivation possibly be anything else?
As Farah has refused to let this indefensible situation simply drop, Warren has responded by taking it to another realm, making personal attacks against Farah in an interview with the magazine, "Christianity Today." But once again, by so doing, Warren succeeds in revealing much more about himself than about his adversary.
Warren, who has not to date been known as any sort of standard bearer for Christian principle in the political arena, decries Farah (whose societal and moral views fall unambiguously on the right) and his ideological allies as part of a wrongful "political" encroachment on the faith.
In contrast, Warren's forays into the political realm prove, not surprisingly, to be decidedly leftist. At a recent conference on the African AIDS epidemic, Warren invited the very liberal Senator Barak Obama (D-Ill.) as a keynote speaker. He justified the inclusion of Obama, who avidly supports abortion and same-sex "marriage," on the grounds that Obama offered a worldly solution to ostensibly curb the spread of the disease through condom usage.
The morally ambiguous message conveyed by the advocacy of condoms, along with their inherent unreliability, make them nothing less than iconic to the abortion industry, which fully understands how much new business they generate. In the face of such pragmatism, one has to wonder what will be next. Perhaps Warren's church will sponsor a "designated driver's ministry" at every bar in its locale.
Appalling though Obama's inclusion in the conference may be, it is nonetheless entirely consistent with Warren's behavior from the beginning.
Leading a megachurch in the culturally disintegrating landscape of Southern California, Warren certainly knows that his prospects of maximizing the "flock" will be greatly enhanced as long as he shows proper deference to the real religion of the area, "political correctness."
In this, his Christian populism movement has proven to be far more palatable to the God-hating secularists of the surrounding communities than such stodgy, old-fashioned and "intolerant" notions as "Thou Shalt Not." And the Warren influence has been predictable wherever it can be found.
If other churches that abide in the Warren philosophy, such as Chicago's gargantuan "Willow Creek," were to truly uphold Christian values among their enormous congregations, they would certainly be a constant "thorn in the side" of their surrounding populace, acculturated into the modernism as those communities certainly are. Yet an amazing degree of compatibility and congeniality exists between the Warren Church model and the social structures of Chicago and Southern California.
The tradeoff between true Christian principle and acceptability to the locals is apparently worth the spiritual sacrifice it entails, with expanding parking lots, increasingly lavish facilities and, of course, fuller collection plates bearing witness. Meanwhile, such churches offer ever less of a worthwhile and much-needed alternative to the ailing world around them.
Ultimately, Warren gives conformist Christians, wearied from their ongoing battle with a world that is increasingly hostile to true Christian faith, an apparent "out" by offering a version that the modern world can find more acceptable while remaining in its present spiritual darkness.
Many among Warren's vast following have made the mistake, in light of his "purpose driven" ministering, of presuming, at the heart of the movement, a Christ-driven purpose. Yet as Warren's real character continues to be revealed, it is becoming apparent that members of that following are presuming too much.
(Christopher G. Adamo is a freelance writer and staff writer for the New Media Alliance. He lives in southeastern Wyoming and has been active in local and state politics for many years.)
Yes, and there is plenty of New Testament evidence that those who DID NOT seek Him found Him anyway. Still no contradiction.
You will NOT find Him listening to false teachings - sheer impossible. God sees into your heart; not RW. God will see the sincerity and not refuse you. RW offers nothing - it is the sincerity of the heart seeking Him not RW's Scripture twisting that saves people.
Unfortunately, the testimony of the Scripture, church, and individuals contradicts this assertion.
Here's a flash for you: EVERYONE has listened to and beleives false teaching, including both you and i. Perhaps they are different false teachings, perhaps they are considered to be minor false teaching, but they are false teachings none the less.
Rick Warren is a teacher of false doctrine, and heretical. Warren does NOT however, teach COMPLETELY false doctrine, as can be evidenced by the confession of faith that Saddleback posts on their website. This is what makes Warren particularly harmful, the mixture of truth with error.
My original contention was that God uses any means He so chooses to use to bring His elect to Him. God has OFTEN used the preaching of false doctrine to get His elect to discover the truth (upon investigation of false preaching), and that the preaching mentioned WAS false doctrine.
An off the top of my head example would be William Murray, son of Madalyn Murray O'hare, former convinced Atheist (error/false doctrine) and now Minister of the Gospel in Texas. The testimony of the Apostle Paul is another example.
Don't confuse means with result. This is, what i beleive you are doing. Yes, the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth, but that's no gaurantee that we don't get lead through error in order to arrive at truth.
i think that we are approaching the same point from two different directions.
Well, if we've got "reverse tithing", no reason to avoid a "reverse foot-washing" service, is there?
Look at the upside -- when you're bowed down before Brother Rick, you're that much closer to being able to touch the hem of his garment. Remember us when you come into your kingdom, Brother Rick!
Never ONCE in the Bible or in real life do FALSE TEACHERS teach TRUTH!!!
Reread my reply.
It is God, through the Holy Spirit in the New Testament and God directly in the Old Testament that judges a heart on sincerity and reveals truth that FALSE TEACHERS are NOT stating.
Provide me evidence in the New Testament where FALSE TEACHERS coverted people to TRUTH.
I find it hard to understand why people show such disrespect in the manner they dress for church. I was raised in the "Sunday Best" tradition, when it meant something, you dressed for church, paid attention in church, and the whole family went home and had Sunday Dinner and actually talked to each other.
I'm looking at ONE (so far!) of the numerous files online on their NVOAD Important Documents page.
It falls under the umbrella of the NVOAD program which is training volunteers in a "Peer to Peer" program in a neighborhood setting.Pastors were told that the would be backed up by law enforcement in controlling uncooperative individuals and that they would even lead SWAT teams in attempting to quell resistance.
Yikes!
I'm still skimming through the "Light Our Way" PDF ("A Guide for Spiritual Care in Times of Disaster for Disaster Response Volunteers, First Responders and Disaster Planners"), and thus far, I've seen a script that shows how "Pastor Beth" maneuvers "Helen" (apparently an older "farm lady") into having herself checked into the mental health system -- because "Helen" sometimes loses her temper.
Then (check out Page 31), they cut to the chase. Pastors are to function as gatekeepers for the government mental health industry, evaluating their members, and "making referrals" (in common parlance, "turning 'em in")
Among the criteria that a minister is to use when deciding if someone who comes to him should be handed over to the tender mercies of the government mental health trade is "problems with relationships."
Also, qualifying for a one-way ticket to the happyhouse are, "flat, expressionless affect of face or voice", and "articulating violent or self-destructive theological imagery".
(What? What??? Better not go reading "carelessly selected" Bible verses in the presence of your Pastor!)
I tell ya, if this stuff gets out, and people see what's going on, it's gonna be the end of "organized religion" in this country, because NO ONE will trust them.
When "your pastor" is operating as a "stealth gatekeeper" for the government.. good Lord, we really are "back in the USSR"!
I am really having a problem with the concept of the goverment managing, guiding, establishing policy and practices... for "The Church".
Paging George Orwell... "The Ministry of Ministry" is on the phone, they're asking for your address. Your Pastor reported that you don't feel good about yourself.
I've given up worrying about what I wear almost everywhere; whatever I wear, I'm almost always dressed better than 90 percent of the people there.
I saw a woman at a funeral not long ago that looked like she was leaving for a cruise.
Figures. Living here in the warm climate of the SW we see a little of everything, exposed stomachs with jewels in the belly button is popular.
I'm shaking my head at many here. I'm shaking my head because what I'm writing is plain English, yet the obvious is missed at nearly every possible opportunity.
Life is short and every breath God gives me is precious. So why should I spend precious life moments arguing with people who cannot understand or purposely twist what I've written? That's a rhetorical question.
I'm not interested in what I see here. Does anybody really want to know what others think or do they just want to twist what others have said and build themselves up? Where is the fruit of the Spirit? Where is grace and love? You can't find it in this thread and it grieves my spirit beyond words.
I have recently memorized Romans chapter 8. While reciting it on my commute home today I came to realize how precious Romans 8:26-28 is to me. I stopped and prayed for many here and came to the realization this is not what I want.
I'll continue posting in this thread. If somebody writes me and I ignore them, they really need to take the hint.
The red font should be a major clue:
"By this all people will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."By your love. Ha. Not in this thread.
I want no part of what I see here and wash my hands of it.
Aw, gee, you make me feel so guilty.
What can I say? You're right, I'm wrong.
I submit my life to Reverend Brother Rick. Let's all join in, and submit ourselves to Brother Rick. He Cares! He's there for us! He means it! He says so, and now we have to do OUR part, which is to simply Trust and Obey, and stop asking hard questions.
My New Life as a Warrenite begins today!
There is No Church but Saddle-back, and Warren (PBUH) is its PARTY-Dude! Yeeeehaw!
Maybe it's time to rest this topic for another time with Scripter. He's really one of the good guys. I many not agree with somethings but respect his wishes.
" find it hard to understand why people show such disrespect in the manner they dress for church. I was raised in the "Sunday Best" tradition, when it meant something, you dressed for church, paid attention in church, and the whole family went home and had Sunday Dinner and actually talked to each other."
Same here.
I have to laugh sometimes ... the Principal of my daughter's school, which is a private Christian school goes to the church I left ... when it's picture day, at school, they ALWAYS state to, ready for this ...
WEAR YOUR SUNDAY BEST!
That could mean anything!
Ripped up jeans etc..
I would be shocked if Rick Warren's followers honestly believed they were depraved people. As best I can tell, Rick doesn't spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convince people that they truly need a Savior. Seeker-sensitive churches try to avoid talking about the "sin nature" instead focusing on the "growth potential".
~LOL~ in this day and age, a definite truism.
Now I've got you right where I want you. ;-) And thanks.
No jails, no riots, no beatings, no arrests.
And all that reasoning from the Scripture and call to repentance...That is just so first century!
Today's message needs more cultural relevance!
PAR-TAY on!
I've heard that from a number of people and would imagine it's true in some churches. I guess I've been fortunate, having been involved with seeker-sensitive churches for nearly 20 years but have always heard messages on the sin-nature/sinful-nature/flesh/sarx, the cross, the blood, etc.
Having grown up in a Baptist church where Christianity was a list of don'ts and where you couldn't clap in the morning services and where drums weren't yet saved, I found the more modern seeker-sensitive services much more appealing, at least for me. I've been in a leadership role ever since.
Including the way the Apostle Paul, Peter and Jesus dealt with false teachers and deceivers. It was very harsh at times but protecting the flock from ravenous wolves and a roaring lion is love at work.
The Good Shepherd protects his flock from wolves (and the false sheperd lets the wolves in through the gate).
We are commanded by Scripture to mark false teachers, avoid false teachers, refute false teachers, sharply rebuke false teachers and to contend for the faith.
This takes alot of love and effort...constant diligence.
Love isn't always a hug and a kiss and flattering words.
"Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy." (Proverbs 27:6)
I have to admit ... "seeker sensitive" catering drives me nuts!
;)
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