Confusion hampered search for Kims

The Sunday Oregonian ^ | 12/17/2006 | PETER SLEETH, STEVE SUO, MICHELLE ROBERTS AND ELIZABETH SUH

[woodbutcher]

The way I heard it he missed the Roseburg cutoff and then found that road on a map and mistakenly thought it was passable. Should have stopped at a gas station and asked, they would have warned him about that nightmare road.

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I forgot what time of the night they would have passed that gas station, so I would ask whether you know for a fact that the station was open, conidering that many times small station owners will quit early on a bad night.

But a second question which is would consider:

Kim and a map. It was his belief that he had a good map.

Why would he stop at every station he passes? Do you stop at every station you pass and ask whether you are on the right road?

No one does until they are lost.

My guess is that by the time he knew he was lost, he could not even turn around.

.

[Uncle Hal]

There was a report a couple days ago that the forest service reported the gate was never locked. It was not locked because they were afraid some body was in there and could not get out.

[Uncle Hal]

I think some of the problem with the Kims is that you have "city" folks coming to the forest and not having the ability to survive in the rough environment combined with the bad weather.

[surfer]

more info in post (75)

[bray]

Well, if I was going to try a small road I know nothing about I would certainly gas up and ask questions. It would have saved his life.

If he was in a strange area in the middle of a storm why wouldn't you naturally go the safest way. I have gone from Roseburg to Gold Beach hundreds of times and would never consider that road. If he was driving that late at night why would he try a questionable pass??

Too bad you weren't in charge of SAR then Kim would still be alive! And yes I am putting the blame on Kim since he is 99% of the reason he died.

Pray for W and Our Troops

[woodbutcher]

Well, if I was going to try a small road I know nothing about I would certainly gas up and ask questions. It would have saved his life.

If he was in a strange area in the middle of a storm why wouldn't you naturally go the safest way. I have gone from Roseburg to Gold Beach hundreds of times and would never consider that road. If he was driving that late at night why would he try a questionable pass??

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How did he know it was not a safe road?

He had a map.

[surfer]

Nobody could have done a better job than Sara R...you have it all figured out Bray...

[my_pointy_head_is_sharp]

It also says the gated section was never closed due to an oversight, not that the lock had been cut.

They actually showed a piece of the cut lock on TV. So who's telling the truth??

[Diana in Wisconsin]

Oh, Brother. Here we go.

The 6 stages of any project:

1 Enthusiasm

2 Disillusionment

3 Panic

4 Search for the guilty

5 Punishment of the innocent

6 Reward of the non-participants

[woodbutcher]

I think some of the problem with the Kims is that you have "city" folks coming to the forest and not having the ability to survive in the rough environment combined with the bad weather.

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This is a total misconception that many here have.

I suggest you go to:
http://www.oregon.gov/OOHS/OEM/tech_resp/sar.shtml

Pick the year 2005 and download the pdf.

Then go to the page #51 where the year 2005 is broken down by residence.

You will note that only 10% of known residents were from out of state.

71% were those highly skilled mountain men from OR.

18% residence unknown, so the out of state could be a little higher, but if the ratio of in to out in the unknown is the same as the known, you can see that the overall ratio of out of state would still be very small.

So all of the smug OR residents who feel that SAR is a horrible expense to them, wasted on those dumbass flatlanders , need to rethink.

It is your butt that they will be looking for next.

[surfer]

The lock was a damaged lock and I believe it was shown on CNN. The CNN coverage was after the Kim's car was removed from the area - they are saying the towing vehicle hit and damaged the gate and lock upon leaving the area...

but who knows...

[Drango]

My concern was blaming and second guessing the authorities in a hysterical way.

Well said. Can't we all agree that the SAR effort was less than ideal? But to then suggest it was the proximate cause of Mr Kim's death is a little too much. A lot of FReepers espouse the concept that a conservative ideal is to be responsible for your own safety. The police, firemen, DHS or local SAR people, God bless 'em all, can only do so much. At the end of the day, it's up to you, not some faceless bureaucrat.

[oldenuff2no]

"These types of roads should be completely closed during the winter."
NO WAY It is a given that Mr Kim was a smart, great guy, good husband and great father. He gave up his life doing what he thought he had to do to save his family.
His thoughts were fatally wrong.
I was born and raised in the mountains in heavy snow country. None of the logging roads or county dirt roads were blocked in the winter and no one that I know of ever died out there.
Over the years I've watched people who aren't from the snow country make every stupid mistake there is. So this situation does not surprise me.

When I look at any road in the winter time the first thing I look for is to see if it has been plowed. If they didn't plow the snow during the last storm they won't during the next one either. It's that easy, that simple, and that obvious. There are many signs on those roads that say "Road not plowed beyond this point." When you run into snow and you are still going uphill you should know that you are heading into more snow. The higher you go the more it snows and the more snow will be on the ground and road.
Putting road barriers up on these mountain roads would be the same as putting signs in south central LA saying that this block belongs to ZY gang and they will attack everyone wearing blue. All the locals already know the local gang situation. They would ridicule you. Because I am not familiar with all the ins and outs of that area, I stay the hell out of there. I fully realize that my ignorance of local conditions could be very harmful to myself and my family.
No matter how you look at it, Mr Kim and his family should never have been there and this tragedy should never have happened. For anyone to come out on TV and say that MR Kim did nothing wrong is dangerous. If People are led to believe that his mistakes are OK then their will be more people dead in the snow. Every one of the S&R people know exactly what the wrong decisions were. They were upset and trying to make themselves and the families feel better. I know this because I have done the same thing in the past, literally been there, done that. We all need to learn from this but to learn from it we must be honest about what happened and how he and his family ended up in such peril.

[surfer]

Why don't you send an email to Peter Sleeth at the Oregonian and ask him about that? I think you will be quite surprised at his response. They have so much more to report but only had some much space to do it in.

As comparison look at the Mount Hood operation - perfectly organized, executed, etc...SAR is kicking major league butt up there in impossible conditions. I am sure the families of the climbers are happy Sara R. isn't on the ground up there coordinating.

[poseiden]

I was lost in down town hollywood one time it was realy annoying.

But, Kim wasn't lost he had a clear trail (road) going back the way he came. Even nine days later when he decided to finaly take the road back the way he came he didn't stick to it and took a deadly path down a canyon instead.

[poseiden]

Resue efforts are only efforts. The rescue efforter has no responsibiltiy to expect to be successful. The have a right to say "I won't do that if it endangers there own life or physical or mental well being".

[Drango]

Why don't you send an email to Peter Sleeth at the Oregonian...

Sure. A rhetorical question to Peter Sleeth, woodbutcher, Mt. Hood SAR and you. "Would Mr. Kim have died if anyone of you had been in charge?"

[surfer]

Like I said...

Nobody could do a better job than Sara R.

[poseiden]

statistics are so misleading. I never run into foriegners from out of state unless there being carefully shaperoned by experienced oregon guides. since Oregon mountain men are in the woods 100% of the time and foriegners are in the woods 2% of the time clearly an occasinal lost Mountain man will scew the statistics to make it look like city people are absolutly brilliant woodsman.

[poseiden]

These heat seeking helocopters are comic. They are way overrated. with in 5 miles sq of the kims there would be an easy 200+ animals giveing off just as much heat as the kims. Unless, the kims have a fire even then figure two or three still smoldering slash piles left over from logging operations. Rescuers are looking for a needle in a hay stack.

Do you know about the little boy lost at crater lake its realy sad.

I like Sara R. her honesty is refreshing.