Minnesota court rules BB gun is a firearm

St. Paul Pioneer Press ^ | SHANNON PRATHER

[neverdem]

A convicted felon barred from carrying a firearm broke the law when he started toting a BB gun, the Minnesota Court of Appeals has ruled.

John Fleming Jr. couldn't legally carry a gun because of two felony assault convictions, so he packed a BB gun instead.

Ramsey County prosecutors decided Fleming was splitting hairs and charged him with unlawful possession of a firearm.

Fleming won when a Ramsey County District judge threw out the charge, ruling the statute doesn't apply to BB guns. But the appeals court ruled prosecutors could again take aim at the two-time felon.

The appellate court reinstated the charge against Fleming, finding that a firearm is "any gun from which a shot or a projectile is discharged by means of explosive, gas or compressed air."

Fleming is accused of carrying a black metal BB gun that discharges a pellet by means of a CO2 cartridge.

[sig226]

Not correct. New Jersey law requires anyone who purchases an air rifle to present a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card, the same one they need to buy a 12 gauge shotgun. An air pistol requires a Permit to Purchase a Handgun. There is no 'air gun' permit, and they are effectively destroying the shooting sports that way.

As a further example of the stupidity of that state, a person can buy all the crossbows they want, which are lethal weapons, with no permit. But if you try to buy that Red Ryder without an FPIC, boy are you gonna get it.

[longtermmemmory]

I suspect this is really VERY BAD reporting.

The probation convict was carrying an object as a weapon.

It would be no different if he used his automobile as a weapon.

[Manic_Episode]

Perhaps it's time to invent and market a mini catapult.

It could be made from a modified mousetrap.

At least those are still legal....for now.

[dhuffman@awod.com]

Reading this thread elsewhere the topic of 'caliber' was introduced with a differentiation firearm/not at 0.18 caliber. I remember with pleasure my .17 caliber Remington that shot a 0.173 inch bullet at 5050 fps. A BB is .177 caliber.

As I read the article I suspected that somewhere a .17 HMR pistol would not 'legally' be a firearm.

Remember, "the law is an ass."

[teeman8r]

we cannot constitutionally deter any individual's right to bear arms... shall not be infringed means just that...

if one has demonstrated through felonious behaviour, he cannot play nice, twice, then we should keep him separated from society for longer periods of his lifetime.

teeman

[MrBambaLaMamba]

The logical progression would be to execute all felons, but that would be logical and also punish criminals not the collective; plus it would violate the socialist taboo on assuming responsibility for one's actions.

[unixfox]

Well they can't say it's a firearm that would mean it has to be treated and sold like a real gun.

And therein lies the problem. They can tax it, regulate it, tax the BB's, you name it.

This country has gone to hell in a hand basket.

[robertpaulsen]

This jagoff has two, count 'em, two felony assault convictions -- what's he doing carrying around anything that even resembles a handgun?

And some on this thread are insisting that technically this really isn't a firearm, so this two-time ex-felon loser should be allowed to carry it around so he has it available to stick in someone's face during a rape or robbery.

Yeah, yeah, I know. If he does that, robertpaulsen, then we'll charge him at that time. Uh-huh. Just a little to late for the person who was raped or robbed. Whatever happened to "common sense"?

[Freedom4US]

We used to make notebook paper "spitballs" with the clear plastic barrel of a Bic pen, and an "L" shaped angle of coat hanger wire.

[Joe Brower]

robertpaulsen,

What you state makes sense on its surface, and such is the manner in which our fundamental freedoms have slowly been legislated out of existence.

If the law wants to keep this miscreant from possessing anything that even faintly resembles a firearm, then it needs to rule appropriately. What we are seeing here is an overreaching and erroneous ruling that is simply another band-aid over a wound that refuses to heal. What is to keep this criminal from carving a handgun replica out of a peice of wood and painting it black? Would you be happy if that also was arbitrarily ruled a "firearm"?

What you are endorsing is some activist judge legislating from the bench, and in the process allowing criminals to dictate what "rights" are allowed the law-abiding. In doing so, you are advocating the punishment of millions of law-abiding citizens, in order to preempt the actions of a few criminals.

This guy needs to be put on a very short leash, but calling an airgun a "firearm" is not the way to accomplish that end.

[night reader]

Maybe he needs a dictionary.

Maybe he needs a brain!

[night reader]

This guy needs to be put on a very short leash, but calling an airgun a "firearm" is not the way to accomplish that end.

Probably the most intelligent, complete, yet succinct comment yet made in this thread.

[NittanyLion]

Yeah, yeah, I know. If he does that, robertpaulsen, then we'll charge him at that time. Uh-huh. Just a little to late for the person who was raped or robbed. Whatever happened to "common sense"?

Common sense should be used by the legislature when writing the law. If the legislature doesn't want felons carrying around BB guns, put that in the law. The judicial branch has no place whatsoever in deliberately misinterpreting basic definitions in order to apply their own version of common sense.

[King Prout]

Yeah, yeah, I know. If he does that, robertpaulsen, then we'll charge him at that time. Uh-huh. Just a little to late for the person who was raped or robbed. Whatever happened to "common sense"?

THAT line of "thinking" is (at best) a verrry slender short-hair away from being identical to the line of "thinking" put forth by HCI et alia. No law will prevent a criminal from commiting a crime. Your line of thinking does nothing save extend the power of government to interfere in the private lives and commerce of the People one further increment.

"Common sense" in political or legal contexts is far too often another name for "short-sighted feel-good election-fodder idiocy".

[robertpaulsen]

"What you are endorsing is some activist judge legislating from the bench"

The Minnesota legislature, duly elected by the citizens of Minnesota, defined "firearm" -- not some activist judge.

"Definition of Firearm: 'Firearm' means a gun that discharges a projectile or shot by means of an explosive, a gas, or compressed air."
Minn. Stat. § 97A.015, Page 38.

[Total Package]

Forks are sharp too they must go!

[NittanyLion]

I stand corrected. It appears the court made the correct ruling.

[Tinman]

Bump for later comment

[Blood of Tyrants]

The ATF will love this. Now they will be shooting 8 year olds in the back and breaking down doors at 2 am over an "unregistered bb gun".

[rhema]

Slingshots will be next.

Antlers, too. Dave Barry's headline for this story: When antlers are outlawed, only deer will have antlers