Gay and Evangelical, Seeking Paths of Acceptance

New York Times ^ | 12 December 2006 | By NEELA BANERJEE

[Albion Wilde]

The Bible cannot lead your life if your life is not in communion with the Holy Spirit. A legalistic reading, searching for well-crafted statutes with no loopholes, violates the very thing Christ came to earth to establish: the truth, for those who can hear the truth.* The Bible's true meaning can be understood only by degrees, and through long study and openness to the promptings of the Spirit within one's life. Then the entire long story starts to knit itself together.

As a teenager I struggled with history class. I found it boring to memorize dates and try to remember who conquered whom -- who cared? But now, history is one of my favorite topics. Not only do I find it fascinating, I also find my unconscious mind has stored up a great number of facts; and as I read about one situation, another one from the annals of time comes to mind and knits together a large timeline and global interactions. What compulsion by the school board's curriculum could not accomplish, my love of reading later achieved quite naturally.

It is the same with Bible study. You couldn't have paid me to do it until I was earning my own living. Faced with adult challenges, I started to look there from time to time for answers. As the years accumulated, so did my love of learning the Bible, as well as my grasp of the larger patterns of meaning in the scriptures. The call to integrity and purity occurs throughout the Bible in hundreds of passages, all of which interweave with, and support, specific proscriptions on behaviors.

A single commandment, "Thou shalt not commit adultery", can be worthy of many hours of contemplation. I like to translate it into modern language this way: "Do not adulterate the essence of what God has created." I believe he created the natural male/female reproductive scheme for the ultimate good of all of human society, not just the pleasure of the individual. When we live as Christians with integrity, with purity of heart and in surrender to God, we offer up our personal desires as a sacrifice, so that the Holy Spirit can move through us and use us to suit God's desires, not our own. These desires may be as simple as whether to wear revealing clothing or as complex as whether to engage in high-risk sex for pleasure's sake. The goal, however, is not to please the self, but to please God.

Our lives here are just a tiny speck of time, compared with the infinite afterlife. Why throw away an eternity in paradise for a few years here of sexual obsession? Only by believing in the promises of God can we have the strength to resist temptations, to live for the greater good and to "die to self" so that we gain eternal life.

*John 18:37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

[xjcsa]

I agree that lust is sinful; the words of Jesus you quoted say that very clearly. I agree that this is the standard. I think where we differ just a bit is on the definition of "lust". I believe that it is possible for me to be attracted - physically attracted - to a woman in a wholesome, non-sinful way. I also believe that it is possible to be tempted to let those thoughts take a sinful turn, and that it is possible to resist that temptation and not sin. It's also all too easy to give in and let thoughts wander where they shouldn't, and I agree that this sin shouldn't be "minimized or justified".

I'm not trying to minimize the reality or seriousness of the sin of lust. But I also believe that we men were designed to be attracted to women, and that if thoughts and actions are kept within appropriate boundaries, they are not at all sinful.

Am I making sense? I think you and I are mostly coming from the same perspective here.

[little jeremiah]

"Only by believing in the promises of God can we have the strength to resist temptations..."

When a person experiences the higher taste of even a drop of love for the Supreme, all mundane so-called pleasures become pale and dim, if not downright repulsive.

[NoCurrentFreeperByThatName]

He can always seek counseling from this evangelical.

[Recovering_Democrat]

I refer Mr. Lee and all gay evangelicals to the words of fellow FREEPer mountnman:

I am a born again Christian. I'm also a heterosexual male with strong heterosexual urges. How I respond to those urges determines whether I sin or not. I make choices everyday about different things. Inever have the option to stand before God and say "Its all your fault. You made me this way."

I, too, have urges and desires I've had all my life and I can't help feeling a certain way. MY responsibility is to act how God wants me to act, not just act upon my desires. Same for Mr. Lee, et al.

I'm not saying it is easy. But with God, nothing is impossible. The Christmas Story in Luke tells us so. :)

[Elsie]

 

 

Gay and Evangelical, Seeking Paths of Acceptance

Good luck!!!

 

Genesis 13:13
  Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.
 

Genesis 18:20-21
 20.  Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
 21.  that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
 4.  Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house. 
 5.  They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
 6.  Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
 7.  and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

 

Psa. 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

         More?

Isaiah 3:9
   The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

 

Ezekiel 16:49-50
 49.  "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
 50.  They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

 

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But there IS hope!!!

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1 Corinthians 6:9-11

 9.  Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
 10.  nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 
 11.  And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

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If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape.....

[Elsie]

I am unclear as to what Scripture actually says.

I hope I've helped a little! ;^)

[AppyPappy]

I'd like to see if he is standing on solid rock before I decide. The MSM is not a good judge of these things. I find most of these "gay Christians" to be a tad wobbly.

[AppyPappy]

Read the Bible and decide. Don't make others make the decision for you.

[shrinkermd]

Yes, thank you. There is one problem. Your quote of Corinthians includes the word "homosexual." This word is of much more recent origin and at the time this book was written the concept of homosexual vs. heterosexual was not used. A later author must have changed or altered the original text.

[scripter]

How does one treat this?

A very good question. Overcoming same-sex desires is no easy road but it is indeed possible. Below are some links where homosexuals can get help leaving the lifestyle.

BTW, we have ex-gays on FreeRepublic.

		Abiding Truth
		Becoming Real
		Choice 4 Truth
		Christians No Longer Gay Living For God
		Courage
		Courage Online
		Desert Stream
		Eagles Wings Ministry
		Evergreen
		Exodus
		Find Out
		Gay to Straight
		Help for Jewish Homosexuals That is Consistent with Torah Principles
		Homosexuality and Gender
		JONAH
		Living Hope
		Living Stones Ministries
		Love Won Out
		Matthew Manning
		NARTH
		National Listing of Help
		New Hope Ministries
		One By One
		Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays
		People Can Change
		Portland Fellowship
		Positive Alternatives to Homosexuality
		Realty Resources
		Stephen Bennett Ministries
		Transforming Congregations
		Witness Ministries

[VRWCmember]

Do you stay sexually faithful to your wife because you would never do anything to wound her, or is it because you don't want to hurt your walk with God?

I'm not a pastor, but for me the answer is both, but more the latter. If I had the "opportunity" to be unfaithful with 100% confidence that my wife would never find out (and thus would never be "wounded") I would still say no because I would know that it is wrong and would hurt my relationship with God even more than it would my relationship with my wife. At the same time, the thought of causing that kind of pain to her through the betrayal also keeps me from entertaining those "opportunities" when they arise.

[trisham]

BTW, Jim Jones was gay.

************

I guess that accounts for the mascara.

[adopt4Him]

absolutely same page. most men -- even Christian men -- aren't willing to speak so frankly and wisely about it. thanks a lot for your openness.

[adopt4Him]

honest answer. thank you. it helps women like me more than you know when you guys are authentic and truthful about your struggles. women need to know (especially Christian women) that men are wanting to fight the good fight of purity, and are aware of the devastating impact on our sense of dignity and value when men lose the battle.

by the way -- side note -- us women shut men down when we're controlling and unsupportive. so it works both ways, i believe.

[almcbean]

Rather than Wikipedia, read Chapter 1 of Romans.

[Elsie]

This word is of much more recent origin ...

Well; it IS a 'modern' translation.

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Here: have three for   1 Corinthians 6:9 

 

-- King James
   Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

 

-- American Standard
   Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,

 

-- New International
    Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

 

(There's not much 'confusion' in the OT verses, is there?)

 

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And a definition for the Greek...

 

 9. |2228| Or |3756| not |1492| you know |3754| that |0094| unjust ones |9999| {the} |0932| kingdom |3588| of |2316| God |3756| not |2816| will inherit? |3361| Be not |4105| led astray. |3777| Not |4205| sexual sinners, |3777| nor |1496| idolaters, |3777| nor |3432| adulterers, |3777| nor |3120| abusers, |3777| nor |0733| homosexuals,

 

Strong's Number: 733
Transliterated: arsenokoites
Phonetic: ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace

 

Text:  from 730 and 2845; a sodomite: -- abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.

[Elsie]

A later author must have changed or altered the original text.

There is no evidence to come to this conclusion.

It's our MODERN use of language that has changed.

If, somehow, all of the slang phrases that infest our society now, becomes engrained and common useage, then ANOTHER 'new' translation will come come along to help those future folks understand the information conveyed in the old language.

Just as hardly anyone can understand Elizabethan English (think KJV)

"Wist thou not?"

[shrinkermd]

"...Homosexuality refers to sexual and romantic attraction between individuals of the same sex. The first recorded use of the word was in 1869 by Karl-Maria Kertbeny, but the prevalence of the concept owes much to the work of the German psychiatrist Richard Freiherr von Krafft-Ebing and his 1886 work Psychopathia Sexualis. As such, the current use of the term has its roots in the broader 19th century tradition of personality taxonomy. These continue to influence the development of the modern concept of sexual orientation, gaining associations with romantic love and identity in addition to its original, exclusively sexual meaning.

I guess it must be a miracle. The Apostle Paul used the word "homosexual" 2000 years before it appeared in English dictionaries.

[Elsie]

Mr. Gagnon and other traditionalists say those passages unequivocally condemn same-sex couplings.

Ok. But I wonder WHY??

Genesis 19:4-7
 4.  Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house. 
 5.  They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
 6.  Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
 7.  and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.