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No Way to Win a War
Wall Street Journal ^ | 12-7-06 | ELIOT COHEN

Posted on 12/07/2006 5:45:08 AM PST by SJackson

theory of the thing is very peculiar indeed. You are in the middle of a war -- a hard war, a war that is going badly. If the government has bogged down, if the people inside have gone stale, you would say that the sound thing, the Churchillian or Lincolnian or Rooseveltian thing, would be, first, to fire a bunch of officials (generals as well as top civilians), promote or bring in fresh talent, and put together a small group of people to take a new and unillusioned look. Those people would report back in secrecy to the president and his most senior advisers and aides.

They would consist of experienced soldiers and civilians in whom the president (who, after all, has to make the strategic decisions, and is the accountable executive) has trust. There would not be many of them, a half dozen or so, and they would have to be hardy enough to visit the war zone for several weeks, talking not just to politicians and generals but to captains and sergeants. They would go see things for themselves. They would visit a forward operating base near Tikrit; they would spend some time with Iraqi soldiers in Taji; they would take their chances in a convoy to al Asad, or even a patrol in Tal Afar.

They -- not their staff of a few soldiers and secretaries -- would do the probing, digging, thinking, discussing and, above all, the writing. The chairman of the group would insist that they air their disagreements candidly and thoroughly in front of the president, engaging in a debate that might last a day, perhaps longer. The rest of us would not find out about the panel until months, or even years, after it reported back; maybe not until the war was over.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: gwot; iraq; iraqifreedom; terrorism; waronterror; wot
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To: SMARTY

Look, winning militarily, and winning the propaganda and political battle are different. We as a nation have demonstrated we don't have the will to fight, so we LOOSE the propaganda and political fight. And there will be hell to pay for this for decades. No one needs to take our threats seriously. I would be very afraid if I were an Ally depending on us right now.....


21 posted on 12/07/2006 11:27:13 PM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: Kozak

"so we LOOSE the propaganda and political fight."

So very much agree with you. Most think this is a "diplomatic" or "military" fight, well, it isn't and never has been.

Those Islamists are and have been far ahead of us in both propaganda and political fight, because they understand the dimensions of the war and fight us not only on our terms but their own. They know that "militarily" they wouldn't stand a chance, at least not at present.


22 posted on 12/08/2006 12:00:04 AM PST by odds
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To: gonzo

Pls see Post #21 & 22.

Thanks for ping.


23 posted on 12/08/2006 12:04:46 AM PST by odds
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To: Kozak; gonzo; SJackson

Something else to clarify after re-reading my previous post #22: I think the Islamists will only be defeated by “force”. However, in the case of Iran, for example, I believe “force” has more than “military” meaning. They should be fought on multiple levels, which include “force” through political and propaganda means. After all, this is largely a war of ideologies and military force should not be used in isolation.

Diplomacy alone has a separte definition. As Reza Pahlavi says: "Washington now underwrites tyranny by diplomacy in Iran." Whatever one may think of him, I believe he has a point there.

http://www.rezapahlavi.org/articles/?english&id=46


24 posted on 12/08/2006 1:34:16 AM PST by odds
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To: MinuteGal

Nah Congress as it was


25 posted on 12/08/2006 3:05:50 AM PST by snugs ((An English Cheney Chick - BIG TIME))
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To: Barney Gumble
But Bush has collapsed. Once a strong leader, he's now bringing in every defeatist (you may have heard them called "realists") to justify negotiating with the countries involved in the proxy war and otherwise retreating.

Ahhhh..........the authorative words of an illiterate.

You really need to start paying attention to who is doing what. If you think President Bush has 'collapsed' you are out of touch with reality.

26 posted on 12/08/2006 5:48:24 AM PST by ohioWfan (President Bush - courageously and honorably protecting us in dangerous times, . Praise the Lord!)
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To: MinuteGal
All they would need to do to completely discredit this sham of a 'commission' is to publish the list of its participants and their true 'credentials.'

THESE are the 'experts' that Congress came up with to evaluate the war (with not one military rep at all).

The commission COULD have been put together by Phyllis Diller. It's a joke that's not funny.

27 posted on 12/08/2006 5:52:07 AM PST by ohioWfan (President Bush - courageously and honorably protecting us in dangerous times, . Praise the Lord!)
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To: gonzo
Thanks, gonzo!

Anyone who thinks Bush has collapsed and the Iraq War is a failure is relying solely on the MSM for information.

TRUTH is a beautiful thing.........and I thank you for it!

28 posted on 12/08/2006 5:54:45 AM PST by ohioWfan (President Bush - courageously and honorably protecting us in dangerous times, . Praise the Lord!)
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To: gonzo


We're not winning the peace.

1. Muqtada al-Sadr should have been shot 3 years ago the first time he caused trouble. The military wanted to but Bremer put the stops on that.
2. Fallujah should have been taken down immediately. The delay embolded the enemy.
3. Iran and Syria are safe havens for building, training and supplying the terrorists in Iraq. Our failure to confront Iran is currently the biggest problem. Bush may be doing stuff behind the scenes, but if he communicated the problems to us better, support would be better. I'm not sure he's acklowedged publicially of Iran's involvement.
4. He shouldn't have forced Israel to stop its war on Hezbollah.
5. He brought in a Baker-lakey as Secretary of Defense
6. On the domestic front, he seemed happy the Dems won so he could past his amnesty plan.



29 posted on 12/08/2006 6:30:17 AM PST by Barney Gumble (A liberal is someone too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel - Robert Frost)
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To: gonzo
On Iraq, Bush hasn't collapsed, but the American people have. In electing to give the RATs control of the Congress, they have handed our national defense to a bunch of Surrender Monkeys. We'll be lucky (or Blessed) if this country even exists by 2009. If a RAT is elected President, we're toast.

Your final sentiment is well founded. Find out where the Mosques are and keep yer powder dry, it may come down to exactly what you are suggesting.

BTW, anybody who doubts the dedication of the troops in the field to the cause for which they're fighting...just ask how many are re-enlisting in-country to continue the mission. Find out if the military is meeting it's recruiting goals. They are despite the msm trying to assert otherwise.

The citizens of the United States need to pay attention to this fact and get out of the way so the armed forces can do their job and come home. That's all they want. They do NOT want a bunch of granola crunching Libs from California or New York crying and whining about the evils of war!

30 posted on 12/08/2006 6:34:20 AM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: ohioWfan
I heard a conservative analyst on the Ingraham show state this morning that the fine hand of Saudi-stooge James Baker can be detected in the makeup of the committee.

He said that there's purposefully no one on the committee that would be able challenge Baker's "knowledge" of and his long-time "expertise" on the Middle East.

It's not bad being on a jackass study committee if you own the only jackass.

Leni

31 posted on 12/08/2006 7:21:27 AM PST by MinuteGal (The Left takes power only through deception.)
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To: MinuteGal
He said that there's purposefully no one on the committee that would be able challenge Baker's "knowledge" of and his long-time "expertise" on the Middle East

That makes sense.

I'm sorry if this is an ignorant question, but did Baker handpick the entire committee?

The fact that no one on the committee knows anything lends credence to the theory that Baker's ego led to selecting only morons so that he could get his way.

(The other possibility is that Phyllis Diller DID select the committee...... :)

32 posted on 12/08/2006 7:44:00 AM PST by ohioWfan (President Bush - courageously and honorably protecting us in dangerous times, . Praise the Lord!)
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To: ohioWfan

It is my understanding that Baker and Hamilton both picked the rest of the committee...i am wondering if they also picked the subcommittee....


33 posted on 12/08/2006 8:05:59 AM PST by daisyscarlett (as)
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To: ohioWfan
If you have the stomach for it, here is a link to IRAQ STUDY GROUP SPONSORED BY THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE FOR PEACE Gads, 44 of our citizens advised them...I am still shocked that Thomas Friedman was one of their advisors...he is certainly a bush-basher and highly visible. He was on katie couric's first show and bashed Bush the whole time...and he writes regular columns in the NTY bashing him...
34 posted on 12/08/2006 8:11:57 AM PST by daisyscarlett (as)
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To: gonzo
>>>We're ready to Rock-and-Roll, and after todays' announcement by the White House that the President would give a major policy speech next week, I'm real curious as to what it's gonna be about. <<<

You and I are both curious!!! Very curious! Personally, I think that it might follow Churchill's old adage:

"In war, the truth needs a bodyguard of lies"

And what those lies were were kept very close. Churchill didn't reveal them to every Member of Parliment, or to all his Generals - the lies, and the truth, were very closely held. Thats why we won!

35 posted on 12/08/2006 10:05:27 AM PST by HardStarboard (Give Pelosi and Reid Enough Rope to Hang Themselves.)
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To: odds; 1COUNTER-MORTER-68; Kozak

#21, 22, 23.

Points well taken, BUT, this war on the muzzies isn't nearly over yet.
Look at the Battlefield and ask yourselves how-in-hell did we get a HUGE ARMY right smack in the centre of all the muzzie oil?
Take a look at all the Maps of that region. We're there!

G.W.B. may be playin'-possum now, but not for long. Diplomacy is useless with Islam, and we know it.
When the talkin' is over, the killing will begin..................FRegards


36 posted on 12/08/2006 10:15:08 AM PST by gonzo (I'm not confused anymore. Now I'm sure we have to completely destroy Islam, and FAST!!)
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To: Barney Gumble
Fallujah should have been taken down immediately. The delay embolded the enemy.

You don't know what you are talking about. Here, General Franks is somebody who does:

What General Franks is saying is that it was decided in our own interest that it was better to have an elected Iraqi government in place backed by a real constitution before we were to go into Fallujah. It was decided in our own interest that it would be better to have trained Iraqi security forces as part of the invasion. It was also decided in our own best interest to have Fallujah become the terrorist/insurgent magnet -- a place where terrorists could go thinking that we were to weak to go in -- so we could than have a centralized place where we could kill them.

Most importantly, in our own best interest, what we did in those several months of delay is gather intelligence on the ground to find out who was in Fallujah and who needed to be killed.

And then what we did for most of that delay, starting in July or August,was we smart bombed safe houses week after week. I recall two or three safe houses were bombed per week with about 10 or 20 terrorist kills per bomb.

The November battle of 2005 was a success. We killed thousands of terrorist/insurgents, we leveled or damaged half the town and we had the Iraqi security forces for the first time fighting and scarifying in an important battle. Every person from that point forward needed an ID card to get into Fallujah.

What Gen. Franks says makes sense. Your knowledge and wisdom of it Barney Gumble doesn't hold a candle to it.

37 posted on 12/08/2006 10:15:27 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: gonzo

Take a look at all the Maps of that region. We're there!"

You are correct,,,The US Military in Iraq,is like a bayonet in moozzi's gut,,Time To Twist It...


38 posted on 12/08/2006 10:41:11 AM PST by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: newcthem
I fear that you are right. The nation of the greatest people the world has ever known, and we are lead by clowns.

In the end, we, as a nation, get the government we deserve. We are led by clowns because we vote for clowns.

39 posted on 12/08/2006 10:46:26 AM PST by TChris (We scoff at honor and are shocked to find traitors among us. - C.S. Lewis)
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To: Barney Gumble

Yeah, whenever I hear the word "realist" these days I translate it to mean "be realistic -- we can't win."


40 posted on 12/08/2006 10:52:43 AM PST by ichabod1 (After the attacks of 9/11, profiling Muslims is more like profiling the Klan.)
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