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10 SECONDS OF HELL IN QUEENS (Driver refuses officer's order to halt)
NY Post ^ | 11/27/2006 | Murray Weiss

Posted on 11/27/2006 7:55:30 AM PST by RGSpincich

-snip-

Dramatic new details of the deadly mayhem include the undercover cop at one point climbing onto the hood of Bell's car - his gun drawn and his police shield around his neck - screaming, "Police! Turn off your car! Let me see your hands!" said sources who talked to some of the cops involved in the shooting.

When Bell then tried to run down the plainclothes officer - twice - the cop began shooting, with some of his 11 bullets piercing the rear window of the man's Nissan Altima, the sources said. -snip-

(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Free Republic; Front Page News; US: New York
KEYWORDS: crime; donutwatch; genecleaning; leo; nyc
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To: Raymann

"Of course we'd have to be in his shoes but I might have done the same also. You see cops everyday but never one thats undercover. If someone points a gun at me and says he's a cop, I'm sorry but I'D NEED A LITTLE MORE THEN JUST HIS WORD."

This is my problem with this situation. I would say the guys who got shot were clearly in the wrong, if the cops had been in uniform.

Seems like a brilliant way to carjack some one, or worse.

I want to believe that the cops were in the right, but as the story stands now, I think they messed up, not that the guys who got shot didn't as well. Stopping to reload seems a bit extreme.


61 posted on 11/27/2006 8:49:22 AM PST by mockingbyrd (Good heavens! What women these Christians have-----Libanus)
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To: KeyLargo
"The five cops who fired shots were put on administrative duty.

----------------------------------------

SOP for the officers on the scene and involved.

There are more variations on what might have happened and what this team was trying to accomplish than have been touched on so far. Folks seem to think that all the Officers were inside the joint. I'd wager no more than two inside and the rest outside within sight of the door but down the block. This area, South Jamaica is a bit of the wild west. Gunfire is not at all uncommon. There are areas where the only safe assumption a cop can make is that anyone on the street in the wee hours is a bad guy. This is one of those areas. That means that any undercover guy is going to be wound a bit tighter than if he were in a radio car in Little Neck, a much quieter nabe in Queens.

As for the superviser, the parameters of the night would be set out but you can't dictate every reaction to every contingency because you can't predict them.

If one of the civilians was heard by one of the cops to say "Get my gun" and then one of the other civilians appeared to be doing so then the cops were right to step in. If the civilian then hit the cop with his car not once but twice then the shooting was righteous.

62 posted on 11/27/2006 8:51:37 AM PST by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: Raymann
I do have one question though, according to the cops Bell's friend was going back to the car to get a gun. Why then did three of them get into the car and start it up?

-------------------------------------------

Ever hear of a drive-by?

63 posted on 11/27/2006 8:53:21 AM PST by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: wtc911

More from the Post:


"Two bullet casings also were recovered from the Altima, although cops said they do not believe they were from a police gun."


64 posted on 11/27/2006 8:53:59 AM PST by jimbo123
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To: wtc911

Thank you for your intelligent reply.


65 posted on 11/27/2006 8:54:30 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: wtc911

The 4th guy who fled was the one who had the gun. And it looks like the plan was a drive-by shooting with the bouncer's friend as their target.


66 posted on 11/27/2006 8:56:00 AM PST by jimbo123
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To: Southerngl
That is overkill for sure!
You shoot to incapicitate, not mutilate.

I wish your sentiments reflected the true mindset and/or policy of law enforcement agencies....

As of late -- the thin blue line mentality has crept into the use of deadly force...

Simply put... the "buzz" remains that if deadly force is necessary -- or "deemed appropriate" by the Rules Of Engagement in the heat of the moment -- THENCE... it should be DEADLY!

They have no one to accuse them of brutality or overkill....
They have no one to file a federal lawsuit for violation of their civil or constitutional rights....
They come off as macho-tough and fearsome warriors of the street that are to be feared by everyone else without a badge....

The thin blue line.... really is quite thin!

Most of our larger cities served by mega-sized police agencies are much closer to the edge of true "police states" than most of us realize... Mid-sized and smaller agencies follow suit in policy and tactics in order to be "current" in their own sight.

Given the increase of lawlessness and careless disregard for the keeping of domestic tranquility... this development is not that surprising.

In my humble opine....

Have a great day

67 posted on 11/27/2006 8:56:24 AM PST by Wings-n-Wind (I live in the south for several good reasons -- "shirt-sleeve" November is one of them!)
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To: jimbo123

Drive by makes sense. Happens all the time at these joints.


68 posted on 11/27/2006 8:59:34 AM PST by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: RGSpincich

WOW and thanks.


69 posted on 11/27/2006 9:00:13 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Rudy 08...If ya can't beat em, join em.)
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To: wideawake

I finally saw some Cops episodes last night. I am amazed at the good humor and gentleness of the police when people are obnoxious, threatening, even homicidal.

I figured that when 50 bullets were fired, something was going on. My idea is that anyone resisting arrest, refusing to obey an officer's order, or threatening an officer in any way - that person deserves what he gets.


70 posted on 11/27/2006 9:00:33 AM PST by sine_nomine (No more RINO presidents. We need another Reagan.)
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To: wideawake
Most normal people realize that if you try to run a cop over with your car you are begging to be shot.

True, but what would you do if a group of men you did not know to be police followed you out to your car and then stood in front of it? If you were concerned for your personal safety and also had been drinking all night, perhaps threatening to mow down the person blocking your way would seem like a good choice.

71 posted on 11/27/2006 9:02:19 AM PST by wideminded
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To: wtc911
It seems the party goers had made a reference to getting a gun, and the cops had no choice in the matter. As Forrest Gump said, "stupid is as stupid does." These guys were really stuck on stupid and set themselves up for getting hurt/killed by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, making threats, trying to run over a policeman twice, hitting an unmarked police van, refusing to show their hands, etc. Fifty shots, or one shot doesn't matter to me because if you threaten me or my friends/co-workers, you will be taken out by whatever means I have available to me, and when I run out of bullets, I'll switch to a bat or anything else I can find. Either way, one of us will be hurt badly, or dead. The idiots in this case lost, and did themselves in. Tough cookies for them.
72 posted on 11/27/2006 9:04:47 AM PST by geezerwheezer (get up boys, we're burnin' daylight!!!)
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To: Wings-n-Wind
As of late -- the thin blue line mentality has crept into the use of deadly force...

-------------------------------------------

Show us the stats that support this please.

73 posted on 11/27/2006 9:09:02 AM PST by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: RGSpincich
Interesting read.

There appears to be some doubt as to whether the $345 judgement against Sharpton has ever been paid. Someone mentioned that they thought it was paid with campaign money. If so it sure did not get any press.

74 posted on 11/27/2006 9:11:10 AM PST by TruthWillWin
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To: RGSpincich

my my my
how the story grows....
first ofiicial statements from nypd were that the car tapped 2 unmarked vehicles,and didn't stop....now the cops were climbing on the hood...like a hollywood action movie...


75 posted on 11/27/2006 9:13:11 AM PST by catroina54 (not anti nypd and the rev al is nothin more than a fat rabble rouZer)
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To: RGSpincich

Thanks for the update- those cops should be awarded medals & stuff sharptons moronic words back down his fat neck. http://sacredscoop.com


76 posted on 11/27/2006 9:14:02 AM PST by CottShop
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To: pandoraou812
" I am sad he was to get married and leaves a sweetheart and two children but he should have stopped and found out why he was being stopped.

Don't be sad- these kids are better off without a 'dad' like this and the mother will probably lose them soon enough- if she is hanging out with creeps like that.

77 posted on 11/27/2006 9:16:10 AM PST by Mr. K (Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help...)
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To: Raymann

If Bell had killed the cop and got away, we'd be arguing over whether, once he was arrested, he was justified in running over the cop or not.

But in this case, he decided to kill the guy in front of him, and having done so the guy had a right to kill him. And it turned out he WAS a cop, so Bell chose wrong.


78 posted on 11/27/2006 9:17:00 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: b4its2late
A stun gun
79 posted on 11/27/2006 9:21:00 AM PST by al baby (Hi mom)
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To: geezerwheezer

>>>trying to run over a policeman twice, hitting an unmarked police van, refusing to show their hands, etc.>>>

Here's the thing, you hit when you said UNMARKED VAN, police officer in UNDERCOVER CLOTHES. That could have been a carjacking! If a home invader gets shot by a homeowner, he is heralded. If he or she happens to shoot a cop in plain clothes busting in a door, he's a thug that deserves to be shot.

I don't get it Freepers!


80 posted on 11/27/2006 9:21:04 AM PST by Southerngl (When people fail to control themselves, they settle for controlling others.)
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