10 SECONDS OF HELL IN QUEENS (Driver refuses officer's order to halt)

NY Post ^ | 11/27/2006 | Murray Weiss

[RGSpincich]

-snip-

Dramatic new details of the deadly mayhem include the undercover cop at one point climbing onto the hood of Bell's car - his gun drawn and his police shield around his neck - screaming, "Police! Turn off your car! Let me see your hands!" said sources who talked to some of the cops involved in the shooting.

When Bell then tried to run down the plainclothes officer - twice - the cop began shooting, with some of his 11 bullets piercing the rear window of the man's Nissan Altima, the sources said. -snip-

[BamaGirl]

"As of late -- the thin blue line mentality has crept into the use of deadly force..."

It's because our society, particularly in the larger cities, has gone to sh*t. People, especially poorer ones, act like beasts instead of civilized citizens. Parents, poor or rich, used to be the ones to teach their kids to act properly. But now that doesn't happen, and now it's the job of the police to deal with 18+ years of kids growing up like animals. As you say, it is no surprise that the police have now gotten much tougher in their actions with potential perps because of this.

But I do disagree that innocent citizens have no redress. There are always hungry lawyers (including our Communist friends at the ACLU) to file federal lawsuits about civil rights, etc. etc.

[Recovering_Democrat]

2 QUESTIONS!

1. Did anyone in the press or the "protest group" of race baiters like Sharpton and Jackson ask about the status of the police officer who was the target of the driver who was using his vehicle as a deadly weapon?

2. Were any of the shooting officers African-American?

[Recovering_Democrat]

RIGHT ON.

[OldCorps]

(1) The "cops are out-of-control 'JBTs'" crowd...

I've used the term JBT here on FreeRepublic a few times, so maybe by your standards I am part of that crowd. If what happened is correctly reported by the NY Post, then I think the officer was shooting in self defense.

I usually use the JBT term when SWAT raids go wrong, like what happened last week here in Atlanta. I recognize law enforcement has a difficult job to do. My own experience is that most local cops and sheriff deputies are good guys. Its when you have SWAT teams and the ubiquitous federal alphabet soup agencies with their political agenda of power and federal funding that people get unjustly killed, and their murderers are never prosecuted.

[Smogger]

...but it sure seems to me they got it right in this case, especially because Sharpton is their saying they are wrong.

Ah.. The always popular (paticularly on FR) "Guilt by Association" logical fallacy.

Guilt by Association is a fallacy in which a person rejects a claim simply because it is pointed out that people she dislikes accept the claim. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

1. It is pointed out that people/person A does not like accept claim P.
2. Therefore P is false

It is clear that sort of "reasoning" is fallacious. For example the following is obviously a case of poor "reasoning": "You think that 1+1=2. But, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Joseph Stalin, and Ted Bundy all believed that 1+1=2. So, you shouldn't believe it."

The fallacy draws its power from the fact that people do not like to be associated with people they dislike. Hence, if it is shown that a person shares a belief with people he dislikes he might be influenced into rejecting that belief. In such cases the person will be rejecting the claim based on how he thinks or feels about the people who hold it and because he does not want to be associated with such people.

Of course, the fact that someone does not want to be associated with people she dislikes does not justify the rejection of any claim. For example, most wicked and terrible people accept that the earth revolves around the sun and that lead is heavier than helium. No sane person would reject these claims simply because this would put them in the company of people they dislike (or even hate).

[Fierce Allegiance]

Have anything to say about the article at hand?

[Fierce Allegiance]

but there seems to be too many variables.

I may not agree with you, but respect the way you lay out your position.

[FreedomGuru]

I understood it was an unmarked car, no arrest, no one yelling we're cops, etc.

I understand that you don't actually read the articles.

Dramatic new details of the deadly mayhem include the undercover cop at one point climbing onto the hood of Bell's car - his gun drawn and his police shield around his neck - screaming, "Police! Turn off your car! Let me see your hands!"

[brooklyn dave]

BUT JJM2111
Don't you know that a minority cannot be racist--where have you been silly?
Barron is the epitome of the pathetic leadership in the black community. Why aren't sane black voices being heard--because the media elites don't want black (nor non-blacks) to hear those voices.

[Smogger]

Yeah. I would say that based on what I know that the whole thing is a terrible tradgedy. The only way I think it might have been avoided is if the backup that had arrived was uniformed officers in patrol cars rather than plain clothes police driving a Camry.

How many of my fellow Freepers would have followed the instructions of a a gun weilding (and I am taking an educated guess) black man who just spent the last several hours eyeballing you from across a seedy strip joint stage?

[geezerwheezer]

At 3:30 in the morning, after you have been "partying" for quite a while, I'll bet any amount you want to bet that your judgement will be seriously impaired, and you will be prone to make errors of judgement, as these clowns did when they refused lawful commands from an identified law officer. The only reason you " don't get it" is because you are either blind to reasoning, or stuck on stupid as the dead guy was. Open your eyes as to what is going on out in the world and you may be unpleasantly surprised at what you will see. There is a whole class of folks who think the laws don't apply to them, from reporters for the MSM, to dummies who drink too much and try to kill cops with their cars. Wake up and smell the proverbial coffee for a change, and get off your high horse.

[Fierce Allegiance]

That's better.

[ArtyFO]

This is an example of a bust gone bad, going racial, and political. There was little reason to stop the victims in the first place. Emptying their clips on the victims is an all out police rage. Undercover cops are hoods with a licence to kill. These clowns need to be hung out to dry. Cops need to be visible and uniformed to be respected. Most crooks, even drunks, will stop for a uniformed cop in a visible police car flashing lights. Most people will not stop for a guy dressed like a hood with a gun hollering at them in some parts of town. The U/C cops are stupid to think that they would.

[Red_Devil 232]

From the report it was not a "group of men" standing in front of the car ... it was one man. Sometimes you don't have to read between the lines to get the facts straight.

[Gideon Reader]

For you the opening music of DRAGNET.

Dumb,Dumb,Dumb,Dumb!

I have read dopier postings, and recently, but you get honorable mention.
Congratulations.
....and have a Nice day.

[Theo]

How many seconds does it take a group of police officers to go through 50 rounds? 5 second maybe?

[Checkers]

bump

[Neidermeyer]

I think the problem is the fact that the cops were UNDERCOVER cops, dressed in mufti, i.e. dressed like hoodlums. Who can tell if you're being hijacked or not. Traffic stops need to be done by UNIFORMED cops dressed like policemen with their cap and uniform visible to the driver.

---

Amen! If I was stalked by people that looked like hoodlums when leaving a club early in the morning I might myself make a comment about getting my gun (the catalyst behind this event) and I damn well would not believe anyone claiming to be a cop just on his say so ... This is NYC , it is virtually impossible to run someone over unless that person purposely puts themselves in your path, cars accelerate slowly and are NOT maneauverable compared to a person on the ground, there are plenty of cars and phone poles to jump behind ,,, at 4am you point a gun at me when I know at that point I haven't done anything that would get the interest of a rational cop and anything could happen ,,, as it did here. I still don't see what the cops were attempting to accomplish for the public good...

[edcoil]

There were only 3 police, bust most pistols have 9 rounds max generally 5-7 loaded so even if it takes 10 seconds of non-stop shooting, there is the reload time for the other clips. instead of shooting good cops verify their target and if it is still a threat. My guess after 20 rounds and during re-loading when no shots returned, they should have stopped.

[wideminded]

From the report it was not a "group of men" standing in front of the car ... it was one man.

An earlier article made it sound as if a group of plainclothes officers followed Bell and his friends out of the club. If the Post article is correct, then you're right, there was not a group on foot in front of the car. The other men fighting Bell et al. seem to have left the scene.