Polygamists fight to decriminalize bigamy

The Washington Post ^ | Nov 21, 2006 | John Pomfret

[presidio9]

In her battle to legalize polygamy, the only thing Valerie hasn't revealed is her last name. The mother of eight has been on national TV; her photo along with that of her two "sister-wives" has graced the front cover of a glossy magazine dedicated to "today's plural marriages."

She has been prodded about her sex life: "He rotates. It's easy -- just one, two, three." Quizzed about her decision to share a husband with two other women: "You really have a good frame of reference when you marry a man who already has two wives." Interrogated about what it's like to live in a house with 21 children: "Remodeling a kitchen, that's no small feat with three wives and a husband involved."

All the while, the petite brunette with a smile as bright as Utah's sky has insisted that she's just like you and me: "I'm a soccer mom. My kids are in music lessons. They go to public school. I'm not under anyone's control."

Valerie and others among the estimated 40,000 men, women and children in polygamous communities are part of a new movement to decriminalize bigamy. Consciously taking tactics from the gay-rights movement, polygamists have reframed their struggle, choosing in interviews to de-emphasize their religious beliefs and focus on their desire to live "in freedom," according to Anne Wilde, director of community relations for Principle Voices, a pro-polygamy group based in Salt Lake.

In recent months, polygamy activists have held rallies, appeared on nationally televised news shows and lobbied legislators. Before the Nov. 7 elections, one pro-polygamy group issued a six-page analysis of all Utah's state and local candidates and their views on polygamy. "We can make a difference," the

[Mamzelle]

Wasn't there a cowboy in Men at Work?

[Ignatz]

Most of these guys are losers anyway. Doubt they paid a dime in taxes since they were born.

Sources, please?

Howabout if they were just "swingers"?

[ApplegateRanch]

Not sure, since I never saw it; but I do know there was one in The Village People, and there were a couple of them in Brokeback Mountain.

[Mamzelle]

Village People--that's right. They like to stay at the Y.

[ApplegateRanch]

Village People--that's right. They like to stay at the Y.

The Y? You're right! They DO prefer the XY to the XX.

The Broken Chromosome Inn is their favorite resort, too.

[William Terrell]

Not at any time, I don't think. To make bestiality a norm would mean we were down the drain anyway. There are a great many people that can be socially programed to tolerate and even condone homosexuality and weird marriage arrangements between and among humans, but I think we all would draw the line at bestiality.

So I hope like hell.

[doug from upland]

I think, my friend, we are heading there. We are watching the Roman Empire in real time. We are living it.

[Gondring]

Boy, you libertarians sure come out of the woodwork on these polygamy threads, yes? Just remember: the zoophiles and pederasts are waiting in the wings.

Considering the libertarian foundation and basis for FreeRepublic and its conservative goals, that's not surprising...in fact, it's more "framework" than "woodwork"...

But the leaps you make to both zoophilia and pederasty are crossing the same line: adult informed consent. That's the scary part about the rise of the Culture of Disrespect^TM, such as is seen in the "pro-life-at-any-cost" movement, the Nanny Staters, etc., who cheapen the idea of adult consent, individual rights, personal sovereignty, etc.

As long as we focus on respecting individual rights, then there's no question of ever crossing the line to where those who can't give adult informed consent are victimized.

[truth_seeker]

"This is a veiled hit piece on Mitt Romney. Mormonism in many people's minds is associated with polygamy, even though Mormons banned the practice many years ago."

Mormons used to make up a big share of the FBI.

I guess the FBI made Jeffs a top ten mst wanted, in order to ruin Romney's chances. This polygamy issue is practiced ONLY by a radical cult.

The big, official Mormon church outlawed polygamy well over 100 years ago. I think it was in part to gain statehood, since the rest of the country obviously disliked polygamy.

I don't think polygamy was ever very widely practiced in Utah among Mormons in the early years. There was a fair degree of mystery and scandal about it, from the start.

But if you wanted to run a cult community far from the law, the northern Arizona strip would be ideal. Note I say far from the law.

The strip is closer geographically to southern Utah. And there are probably a few polygamous outposts scattered around that area.

There isn't much population. Saint George is the "big city."

[tsomer]

I'm just trying to decide if your a sociopath or just an idiot. I'd prefer the latter label, but that's just me. As the french say: 'vivre la differance.'

Go ahead and smoke all the pot you want to.

But know this: your libertine notions are nihilistic and a cancer to the most humane, productive and egalitarian society the world has ever known. If you go down this path, tearing down thousands of years of moral and societal evolution, then you'd better understand: you cannot draw an arbitrary line behind you to restrict the whims of those who follow. You find child abuse repugnant at this moment; but what about the future? Desires, yearnings, 'needs'--as we like to characterize them-- change. Moral precepts do not.

I would appreciate if moderators would purge any further discussions supporting polygamy. It is immoral, an abomination, a contradiction to the fundamental assumption of equality between men and women, and the certain means to our complete destruction. If we cannot agree on this rudimentary precept, everything thing else here is false.

[traviskicks]

lol, it is always surprising to me the venom which is directed against the 'radical' notions of liberty and freedom :)

take care my friend...

btw, you may find this of interest:
http://www.neoperspectives.com/Social_Conservativsm.htm

You might even want to ban it :)

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

I do not see a rush to overturn the original "separation of church and state" precedent.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

This road started the moment government started butting into the personal religious concern known as marriage.

It was landmark U.S. Supreme Court precedent Reynolds v. United States in 1878 that made “separation of church and state” a dubiously legitimate point of case law, but more importantly; it confirmed the Constitutionality in statutory regulation of marriage practices.

(See also: Late Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints v. United States, 1890.)

No man can become a law unto himself under the guise of freedom of religion... Marriage is a religious rite, not a civil right...

"We have the right to regulate practice, not belief." (Reynolds)

[Gondring]

You're repeating yourself.

[Gondring]

The big, official Mormon church outlawed polygamy well over 100 years ago.

Actually, IIRC, that's not true. Polygamy is still a canonized doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The LDS stopped sanctioning these marriages, but the doctrine remains, if I understand correctly.

You have to read LDS press releases quite carefully...misleading or misstatements seems not to be included in "bear[ing] false witness."

[Gondring]

I would appreciate if moderators would purge any further discussions supporting polygamy.

I have some books that discuss and may be construed as supporting polygamy. Do you want me to send the titles and ISBNs for your next book burning?

[gondramB]

>>would appreciate if moderators would purge any further discussions supporting polygamy. It is immoral, an abomination, a contradiction to the fundamental assumption of equality between men and women, and the certain means to our complete destruction. If we cannot agree on this rudimentary precept, everything thing else here is false.<<


I oppose legalizing plural marriage - government sanctioned marriage is a government incentive and we have no business incenting plural marriage just as we have no business legalizing and thus incenting homosexual marriage.

But.. the bible supports multiple wives. Also, plural marriage doesn't have to be one man and multiple women - it can be be the other way around.

In any case, we need to separate between adults living together voluntarily from forcing underage girls to marry and have sex. One is freedom of choice, even if we don't like it and the other is rape and child abuse.

[Brilliant]

Here's an article that just gives a sampling of the problem:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy69.html

Every time I hear about one of these polygamists on TV, I find myself asking "How does this guy support all of those wives and children?" Then they usually answer the question: He doesn't. The taxpayer does.

[Texas_shutterbug]

"But I suppose you'd disparage these women as "brainwashed," huh?"

Actually, I would believe that those woman do not have the deep love that I feel for my husband, which is an exclsuive lovers' love. Even God is jealous; it is not wrong to have jealousy as a human emotion, and if my husband asked me to share him with another woman it would be like driving a wedge in my heart.

Have you not seen the very real pain of a friend who's spouse is having an affair? Just because it happens frequently, does't mean it doesn't hurt. It's supposed to hurt less because a piece of paper then puts that woman on the same plane as me?

Two women who want to share a husband due to convenience loves those conveniences more than the husband, don't have a sex drive, have lesbian tendencies, or have some other such problem.

Besides, I like sex just as much as my husband. That aspect hasn't been discussed much. As a Christian, St. Paul says that we are NOT to deny one another. How is he not denying me if he's having sex with several other women? I want sex just as much as my husband, and it's my right to have it!

[Red Badger]

I believe that passage was in reference to Money ( or any other thing that might take up all your efforts, like drugs or hobbies). Serving God and Mammon (the god of money) simultaneously is not possible...........But St. Paul did write that you should be the husband of just one wife. Whether this is him speaking or the Holy Spirit, I don't know. He was noted for interjecting his own personal opinions into his instructions to the churches, and admitted so. I have nothing against someone having more than one wife, if they keep God's commandments and truly love and support their families. This guy, though, seems to (my opinion) be hiding pedophilia under the guise of religious teaching..........