Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers (Commie Alert)

Daily Bruin ^ | November 15, 2006 | Lisa Connolly, Derek Lipkin and Saba Riazati,

[radar101]

UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody.

No university police officers were available to comment further about the incident as of 3 a.m. Wednesday, and no Community Service Officers who were on duty at the time could be reached.

At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.

The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.

The student began to yell "get off me," repeating himself several times.

It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.

UCPD officers confirmed that the man involved in the incident was a student, but did not give a name or any additional information about his identity.

Video shot from a student's camera phone captured the student yelling, "Here's your Patriot Act, here's your fucking abuse of power," while he struggled with the officers.

As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said "stop fighting us." The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.

"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident.

As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.

Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.

Gordy was visibly upset by the incident and said other students were also disturbed.

"It's a shock that something like this can happen at UCLA," she said. "It was unnecessary what they did."

Immediately after the incident, several students began to contact local news outlets, informing them of the incident, and Remesnitsky wrote an e-mail to Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams.

[traviskicks]

Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.

[Valpal1]

You are assuming the version in the student paper that the man was on his way out is true. What if he was not leaving and in fact went limp as the officers attempted to escort him out as the officers claim?

[Cap'n Crunch]

Hey, come on. You obviously haven't read "The art of war" by Sun Tzu. If you had you would know that Sun Tzu was a great American police officer.

I think I'm going to start my own newspaper advice column, just for cops: "Dear Sun Tzu"

[Cap'n Crunch]

I've been absent for awhile so I started reading some of these posts.

Did you say 'goose-neck' his wrist? You gotta be kidding me. Where I come from if you try to goose-neck somebody's wrist he's going to goose-neck your teeth down your throat.

Then you advocate hitting him with a baton? We were given tazer's so we didn't have to use those brutal batons.

And drawing your gun???

Our dept. has bought into the wimpy cop mentality. You know, 'black jacks are cruel', 'baton strikes and punches in the nose might hurt somebody.' "We don't need a jail." "People need re-hab instead of punishment."

So what'd they do? They bought "pepper spray" the end all. The junk don't work.

Now we have the tazer so we look more humane. Another joke. Instead of grabbing somebody, like they should, officers now reach for their tazer at the first hint of battle.

And I think it's a mistake. And the only ones who win are ambulance chasing lawyers.

It's almost not worth being a cop anymore.

[P-Marlowe]

I think I'm going to start my own newspaper advice column, just for cops: "Dear Sun Tzu"

Dear Sun Tzu:

I have a problem. I am currently on foot patrol and there are these mean gang members who constantly shoot at me and otherwise make me nervous and upset. My bullet proof vest is starting to show signs of wear and tear and I am afraid that someday I might acutally have to remove my less than lethal weapon from my holster and cause pain to one of these poor young men.

How can I stop them from shooting at me. Should I offer them candy? If I asked them really nice to stop shooting at me do you think that might help? Most of the time all I am able to do under our current rules of engagement is to duck and run and then call for backup, who usually come and duck and run alongside me.

Again this is becoming a serious problem. I don't want to cause any pain to these people as it might cause me to lose my job and it might turn these fine young men into millionaires and what good would that do if they don't share their wealth with me.

What do you suggest.

LA Cop.

[OhMama]

I am actually just posting to this thread and not anyone particular, so please don't be offended.

I watched this video and at first was just plain shocked at what I heard more than seen. My first initial reaction was "how dare those police do that to that guy!"

But deciding to do a bit more research and after reading many of the posts here, I have concluded this: Neither group was right for doing what they did.

If I go by the information provided, it is a policy of UCLA that anyone using the library after 11 pm must possess a student ID. Since this gentleman did not he was in violation. His reaction should have been to apologize and and leave immediately. He could easily retrieve his ID and return once he had it on him. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Secondly the police were called for some reason. Obviously the student chose not to comply with the request for him to leave. I agree that for police to get there it would have taken some time, certainly long enough for him to leave willingly. Obviously he chose not to.

The police officer who grabbed his arm may have been within his rights to do so. We as an audience did not hear anything said or seen what was occurring at this instance. Again I can only conclude that this Officer of the Law felt at some point it was necessary to physically intervene. I don't know if it was brutality, or simply a way of ensuring the student left. I was not there.

By the time the young man starts screaming, he has now drawn the attention of other students. You can hear the police asking him to comply with their requests and he is failing to do this.

In my opinion I feel the need to taser the young man certainly did not seem warranted. I have watched enough episodes of cops to see many other tactics to get people to comply. The young man obviously wanted to leave, but again whatever exchange took place prior to the video may have been his poor choice.

Ok so they taze him in order to get him to comply. By this point we already know there is going to be a charge of some kind. Why was it necessary to continue to taze him? This is where I feel they were wrong. The guy simply would not get up. It's not like he was swinging at the police or causing them harm, he would not comply. Why was it necessary to administer pain to make him do so? It wasn't.

With the amount of police I saw in the video, he could have easily been cuffed while on the floor, feet bound, and carried out like I have seen done on many occasions when someone is not complying with requests (mostly drunks). So again, I feel the police were now pulling out their dicks to show everyone how big their balls really were. I know they receive various options to diffuse situations and I feel they did not utilize all their options.

It was not necessary to threaten students with tasing because they were upset or because they wanted badge numbers and names. As an officer of the law they should have provided that information or simply stated, "if you step back and wait for us to resolve this situation I will be more than happy to provide that information to you." There is no need to be rude or threatening.

I have great respect for Officers. Many of them go out hoping they will return home alive and well to their families. Unfortunately there are others who do abuse their position. I don't think the police reacted badly, however I do think their behavior should be reviewed and gone over with their supervisor.

As a mother to 6 children, I would be horrified to know this happened to my child, however I would beat them silly if I found out they failed to do what an Officer asked them to do.

We all make choices, some good, some bad. This young man made a poor choice and as a result certainly was met with a very nasty outcome. He only has himself to blame.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Most Dear LA Cop,

Sun Tzu will now throw secret Pearls of Wisdom at your tired foot patrol feet.

Sun Tzu regret to inform you that you live in Liberal Mecca of People's Republic of California. And, sad to say, Liberal theology spreading rapidly from Sea to Shining Sea. As evidenced by ningcompoops on thread.

But, be of light heart, take one of the shining paths that I am about to show you.

Sun Tzu say, path number one: "You takie Fire Dept. Test." Everybody love Fire Dept.

Path number two: "Study for Federal Law Enforcement job, where you will not have to deal with mean gang member and they show you ancient self-defense secrets, such as the highly effective 'goose-neck' to the wrist.'

Finally grasshopper, come to my secret school, where you will learn the ways of Neo in 'The Matrix' and you will be able to dodge nasty bullets, pluck the weapons from your enemies goose-necked hand and replace it with the Golden crack pipe.

Once gang member have golden crack pipe he can move out of Socialist Democrat 'hood and into Socialist Democrat Politician 'hood.

Then my LA Cop friend, things will change very quickly.

Peace out. Sun Shizzle Tzu

[retMD]

"From taser's web site: "TASER-induced strong muscle contractions usually render a subject temporarily unable to control his or her psychomotor movements. "

yes but the results clear quickly once the current stops.

Please provide a link to how fast most people are able to stand afterward. Also, are there outliers, and what percentage are unable to stand after 3, 5, or 10 minutes? I'm not sure how long the video lasted, but I don't think it was more than 10 minutes, and supposedly the offender was tasered 5 times.

The bottom line is that I haven't been able to find anything definitive on how fast most people recover, so I still question whether this guy could simply stand up after being tasered. From the medical literature, I know that tasers aren't as "safe" as many make them out to be. They are a good choice for many situations, a great alternative to deadly force in certain cases, but not for casual use.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Hello, and welcome to FR, I see it is your first day. Nice place.

I am not offended, after 20 years on a police dept. most cops are impervious to offense. Besides, donut build up in the ear canals gives us hearing problems.

I have not seen the video. Just hearing the story I can read between the lines. I did read some of the security account.

The problem, in my opinion, and I may have rambled on about it on this thread, is the policy of police depts to use "nicey" things to gain control of non-compliant folks.

For instance, when I first started, we carried black jacks. If you hit someone with a jack and they only received 3 or less stitches, you we're considered less than manly. 4 to 8 was average and 9 and above was the ideal.

Well, the days of men being men came to an end. Guys used to lip off to the cops, take a swing at the cops, fight with the cops, get corrected and that was the end of it.

These are now referred to as 'the good old days.'

Enter the ambulance chaser. Enter the 'civil rights violation' federal government. Enter the law-suit.

So, out went 'the jack' and in came 'the pepper spray.' Everybody play nice. Well, the pepper spray didn't work. Enter 'The Tazer.'

Enter police Policy's and procedures of police departments that dictate what you will use when met with force.

I prefer my judo, sambo and grappling over 'The Tazer.' Most young police officers though, from my experience and personal observation, prefer 'The Tazer.'

Now, enter the dilemma. People who think that they have 'the right' to break the law, speak in any manner they deem appropriate and then run to an ambulance chaser after they are introduced to reality.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Now Sun Tzu must go cook up a mess 'o Lake Erie Yellow Perch.

[P-Marlowe]

Dear Sun Tzu;

I noticed that you suggested that I become a fireman. I don't know if you know it or not but the LA City council just settled a case for 2.7 million dollars against The LA City Fire Department because a black fireman (who called himself "The Big Dog") was given a spoonful of dog food in his spaghetti after a Volley Ball game where he continually taunted his fellow firefighters to: "Feed the Big Dog."

I fear that if I join the fire department (being a white guy and all) that if I were to be at all humorous during my down time, that I could get fired and subject my nearly bankrupt city to new lawsuits that could threaten my new career as a firefighter.

Now if, as you suggest, I learned the ways of Matrix and was able to pluck weapons from the hands of these gang members, don't you think I might accidentally cause injury to their trigger fingers and then destroy my career and further bankrupt my employer?

And what if one of the bullets bounces off my vest and accidentally ricochets back at the gang member and he gets hurt? What kind of trouble could I be in then?

And if, as you suggest, I give a gang member a crack pipe and he breaks it and cuts his lip, then couldn't I be personally liable under some kind of products liability lawsuit?

Oh great war sage, please help me.

Desperately yours,

LA Cop

[driftdiver]

"Please provide a link to how fast most people are able to stand afterward. Also, are there outliers, and what percentage are unable to stand after 3, 5, or 10 minutes?"

He was able to scream and shout. That involves muscles to reach the volume this guy did reach. Its also posted elsewhere that the tazors were set on "motivate" and not "stun" they would have had less impact.

[xzins]

Dear Sun & Cop,

The object is not for you to die for your city. It's for the other SOB to die for his city.

Have the LA Cops be Criminals and have the Criminals be Cops. Then the criminals can off the cops.

And it'll be legal. (Doc Holliday)

Patton Out

[bboop]

Velveeta, thanks for posting the rest of that story. He stared immediately encouraging students to resist? Isn't that odd? Now instead of a rule-breaker, he is a perpetrator. And then, such a surprise, a victim of his own belligerence.

[VRing]

"For instance, when I first started, we carried black jacks. If you hit someone with a jack and they only received 3 or less stitches, you we're considered less than manly. 4 to 8 was average and 9 and above was the ideal."

Didn't I just read somewhere that 1 in 3 Lorain police officers have been sued or disciplined since 2000?

[retMD]

Being able to scream and shout does not mean he could stand. I seriously question whether he could stand so soon after a taser shock, especially repeated shocks. I'm open to being shown I'm wrong, but I want to see the research.

Something I just found from a PoliceOne.com columnist, Captain Greg Meyer (ret): "The problematic TASER incidents—ones that cost you headlines, internal investigations, and lawsuits—are frequently incidents where the officer is trying to achieve compliance with the officer’s directions, as opposed to trying to achieve control of an actively or aggressively and physically resisting suspect."

[OhMama]

Here is a nice video to watch. It is a Marine considered to be the toughest guy alive. Listen to what he says about being tasered at the end:

http://www.dump.com/ufmre/

"I have never been hit with something like that, that could knock me on my ass and I can't continue to do anything but just lay there like a little baby"

http://www.dump.com/vhvpe/

ANother good video to watch. There are a couple of people (not sure if they are police or not) who took two shots and rode the full 5 seconds and got right back up.

So basically the taser itself hurts like hell, but the effects seem rather short lived.

So I guess you could argue that there is no reason why he could not have gotten back up right away and comply with their request. However, I still feel using this type of force to make a person comply when you have not tried other options is abusive. I'm not saying this student didn't deserve it, however I have seen many other techniques work just as well. It's not like this kid was armed or swinging at police, he was simply not complying with requests.

[OhMama]

Trust me when I say, I do not envy anyone who goe sinto law enforcement as it is a very dangerous and unrewarding job. I weep for many of our officers who have sufferred at the hands of many arrogant and disprespectful people. I also undrstand that job stress can play a huge roll. After deling with 6 kids in a day I am ready to start playing soccor with thier butts and start sending them (punting actually) to their rooms for bed.

I can only imagine how a full day of listening to beligerant people can make a situation get out of hand quickly.

All in all I feel the young man was wrong and deserved what he got. I just wish the police had had a better chance to do things without the escalation. I don't like tasers, but if it is going to save your life, the life of the peron you are delaing with and everyone get home safe that night, I say let them spark.

Sorry about tha harsh cock and balls statement. It was probably out of line. I don't know what I would have done in that sitaution personally.

[bboop]

What about 'refused' to show his ID? That is a step beyond not carrying ID. Bad decision on his part -- it is a simple request. Maybe it interfered with a plan he had....

[Cap'n Crunch]

Ah, LA Cop, you have much to learn.

'The Big Dog' attended Sun Tzu's secret school of frivolous lawsuit. Sun Tzu would eat the dog food for 2.7 MILL... Did you say 2.7 Mill?? For a taste of dog food??
In the words of Napoleon Dynamite: "lucky"

Sun Tzu has noted that you are at a serious disadvantage in the race category. Though you may still play the 'transgender' card should you go to the Fire Dept.

So many liability questions have made Sun Tzu sleepy. Much yellow perch has also severely impaired Sun Tzu's thinking. I must go ponder these questions at my leisure before I go to off-duty job.

Sun Tzu has a headache.