Posted on 11/12/2006 10:23:21 PM PST by quesney
By Bill Gertz THE WASHINGTON TIMES November 13, 2006
The USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier The USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier (AFP/Getty Images)
A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.
The surprise encounter highlights China's continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S., despite Pentagon efforts to try to boost relations with Beijing's communist-ruled military.
The submarine encounter with the USS Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships also is an embarrassment to the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, who is engaged in an ambitious military exchange program with China aimed at improving relations between the two nations' militaries.
Disclosure of the incident comes as Adm. Gary Roughead, commander of the U.S. Navy's Pacific Fleet, is making his first visit to China.
[...]
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
One thing about barbaric socialist governments...all the idiots seem to rise to the top...
They likely won't have to if current trends of corruption hold. But it is likely their fall-back strategem if we ever wake up out of the de-industrializing trade-stupor, and seek to end the defense holiday.
And let me ask you in turn, why they have invested as much effort and political capital in abetting global nuclear proliferation? Just for kicks? It isn't just that they think there is "safety in numbers" but that the issue of the authorship of any comprehensive Pearl Harbor pre-emption of U.S. strategic forces must be made nebulous. Several "fall-guys" have been cultivated.
To be effective, their real nuclear attack capability...must come as a complete surprise. One so surprising, that we will have blithefully continued the nuclear defense holiday as well...unsuspecting of the threat. "Dwelling carelessly in the isles."
W has, to my knowledge, never reversed Xlinton's 1996 Executive Order eliminating the launch codes from the Trident submarine commanders. Operation Looking Glass remains mothballed.
It is almost as if we are inviting the sucker punch.
Two points:
1. If the chinese sub was using AIP, it probably would be quite difficult to detect.
2. We probably did detect it before it surfaced.
But that is yet in the future and we are s=till capable, IMHO, of avoiding it if we act strongly now.
The first paragraph of your response and my premise are in accord.
Since I have not delved into other matters that you raise, I have no reason to quibble with whatever else you postulate.
if we act strongly now.
Do you have anything specific in mind?
The true free market must operate on the same fundmental moral principles as our free Republic...otherwise it is a sham and will lead to much worse conditions IMHO.
As we do that, we should have bilateral talks with N. Korea, Iran, and Syria and inform them that they either immediately stop supporting terroist enemies of ours and end their nuclear weapons programs...and do so in a verifiable way to our satisfaction, or we will completely destroy those programs and wholly decapitate their C&C (Command and Control) ...meaning their leadership.
We tell the UN, China, and anyone who raises their voices against it to go pound sand, and that if they abett and support our enemies, there will be plenty to go around for them too...and then we mobilize this nation for war against these animals just like it is the generational conflict that Bush has (rightly) called it. You cannot face such a conflict...and then expect to go about life at home as if it does not exist. Our fathers couldn't do that (and they recognized it and sacrificed and prepared accordingly) and neither can we.
IMHO, sooner or later, that's what it is going to come to and the sooner we stand up and recognize it as a people the better.
Very true, people just do not realize that at some point, maybe sooner rather then later, the Chinesse will have thier own market at which point they will not need the US market to sell thier goods. Once that point is reached they will be thier own masters as woe be to anyone that get in thier way. A market of one billion consummers will drarf our 300 million market. Dido India. But when that happens we will be depandant on them for our welbeing since we will be unable to meet our demestic damands with domestic goods. Even worst we will have largely lost the hands on knowhow to build and operate modern plants.
Nah, it's dawned on the Chinese that if we're afraid to fight in Iraq against an army without a country, we won't fight them over Taiwan. In fact, we won't fight anyone over anything when the dems take over...
Nancy's message is sinking in - the world is changing.
Those countries that have grown economically, knowing they don't need to front a large military, will be poorer. Soon. And those that have arms next to weak neighbors, will consider the move... Who's to stop them? The UN? I hear laughter off in the distance ... and the rumble of tanks.
MISINFORMATION??????
I am just having a very hard time believing a deisel powered anything stalked a carrier batallion without being detected.
When running on diesel engines, they are not so quiet.
It is highly unlikely that the "shadowed" our carrier strike group...they would be too slow to keep up, and if they tried, they would be too noisy.
We publish, in peace time, many of the whereabouts of our carrier strike groups. Particularly the Kitty Hawk. My guess is that the Chinese simply went to a point in transit and waited, letting our escorts pass by while submerged on battery power, and then surfaced at the closest approach of the carrier...or something like that.
I a war time footing, operating under a buttoned up condition and taking evasive action in transit, not publishing either the location, destination, or schedule...such a diesel electric would not be able to do this...particularly as our helos searched forward, starboard and port for any potential submarine interlopers.
OTOH, we have been foolish in retiring things like the S-3 Viking aircraft and their ASW capibility from our carriers. They had both the range and the endurance to range far and wide around the carrier prosecuting submarines (it is what they were designed to do). The helos are much shorter range. Leaves a hole and a vulnerability that an enemy will exploit if they can.
This election cycle has not been promising. Today's news that the rats want to get rid of John Bolton and the distinct possibility that Murtha may very well be the majority leader does not bode well.
I am not a defeatist, Jeff, but I do not see a whole lot of positives.
Oh...I agree. The US electorate has shown the terrorists and our internal enemies that they have no stomoach for the real fight right now. Unfortunately, I believe it will end up being tens or hundreds of thousands of dead Americans before our people develop the stomach for it. I have faith we will prevail, I believe that the cost will now be horribly higher than what it otherwise would have or should have been.
Bush has been held hostage by Chinese who own $1 trillion of US govt debt.Or, just maybe the creditor is bound to the debtor?
Any US or Allied surface combatants who are caught without effective air cover will be slaughtered just like what the Japanese did to the British Repulse and Prince of Wales and to the American-British-Dutch-Australian (ABDA?) task force that attempted to halt their aggression into the Dutch East Indies in early 1942.
If the Chinese use their submarines like the Germans used their U-boats in WW1 and WW2 to cut the supply lines to our outposts in the Far Pacific (not like the Japanese who preferred to send their subs after our warships), it will be very hard to ensure that these bases have enough essential supplies (food and ammo) for the troops based there, to say nothing of the local population, as most of these islands have to rely upon outside food sources for their continued survival.
If the Chinese are able to gain a measure of self-sufficiency, it will take nothing less than a full-scale invasion of mainland China to force their capitulation in a war. Just constructing enough troop transports, supply ships, landing craft, and other essential equipment to mount such a massive invasion (you'd have to put 8-10 divisions on the ground in the first 48 hours if you are going to stand a chance of securing an effective beachhead) will require several years, especially since most of the shipyards that built the landing fleets that launched simultaneous assaults on Normandy and Saipan have long since been swallowed up by urban sprawl. New shipyards will have to be constructed before any major construction projects can begin, which will take at least four or five months, if all of the red tape is cut.
I believe the US would prevail in such a conflict, but it will be longer and bloodier than any war in our history. In fact, the length of the conflict and the casualty counts will probably be close to what you listed in your book, Dragon's Fury.
ping
True..unpleasant, but true.
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