Posted on 11/12/2006 6:27:25 AM PST by Valin
I was in a recent discussion about the war on terror and the nature of the Radical Wahhabi sect of Muslims. One person felt that war is wrong and that a pacifistic approach would be more successful. To engage in war was to become like your enemy, and to retain our humanity we must be pacifists.
This person cited Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Jesus as examples of successful pacifists. I agree that pacifism is preferable to war in instances where it is logical to follow that path. In other words, it has to work.
In the case of Gandhi, it worked because he was fighting a country that had moral lines that they would not cross. He wore the British down. They would never have gathered up their enemies and gleefully beheaded them with dull knives. That would have been contrary to what a civilized nation does to its subjects. So in the case of Gandhi, pacifism worked.
It worked for Martin Luther King because he was in America. Again, America does not believe in the use of dull knives and beheading as a means to an end. In America, among other rights granted in our constitution, people are guaranteed the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
It worked for Jesus' followers when society adapted its beliefs to a more Christian outlook. Jesus was a martyr, and it took many years for Christianity to catch on.
Historically, pacifism didn't work to stop Hitler. When he rose to power, Jewish pacifism made it easier for him to round them up. One neighborhood put up a fight, but that was only after they realized what was happening to the other Jews already taken. By then it was too late. Negotiations went on with Hitler for seven years before World War II finally broke out. That gave him seven years to round up the undesirables and deposit them into his death camps. Six million people were murdered. You can kill a lot of people in seven years while negotiating in bad faith. Hitler had his plan and he stuck with it. It did not stop until war broke out, and he was forced to stop.
Let's look at Stalin. Seven million purge victims were put in labor/death camps, on top of the hundreds of thousands who had been slaughtered outright.
Neither Hitler nor Stalin seemed to have much patience with objections from their citizens. Logically I can't see passive resistance as an option to stopping their plans.
So will pacifism work in the case of radical Muslim terrorists ? Well first off, if you have read the Koran, there are many passages advocating the killing of infidels. The Wahhabis whole-heartedly agree with these passages and interpret them to mean all non-believers. In fact, it is the only holy book that I know of that can be interpreted to advocate the killing of non-believers. These fascists hold the power in the Muslim world. The Muslims who disagree are for the most part silent. And can you blame them? The crazy guys have the guns. They believe they have Allah on their side, and will kill Muslims just as easily if they disagree. The Wahhabi fundamentalists also believe in expansionism and have been working to achieve that goal since this crazy sect was first restarted back in the beginning of the 20th century. And it seems to be working.
Radical Muslims have caused the deaths of more than 10 million people in half a century. The count continues to rise. They continue to move into other countries and demand their religious rights. When enough arrive and the local population refuses to convert, they are killed. More than two million Christians have been killed by Wahhabi Muslims in Sudan since 1989. Now African Muslims are being killed by these radicals in the Darfur region. Algeria has a death count of a quarter-million Muslim citizens being killed by Wahhabis. In Spain, protests have been breaking out and rioting has occurred in the streets. In the Philippines, kidnapping and assassinations are occurring more often. There are problems in Chechnya, France, Denmark and Norway. The United States was attacked on 9/11. Radical Muslims are behind all of this. In Palestine, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, money is funneled to support this terrorism. Saddam Hussein, former ruler of Iraq, also gave money to terrorist bombers, and turned a blind eye to terrorists meeting within his borders because promoting unrest in the Middle East allowed him a firmer control of his own corrupt and murderous government.
If you do not convert to their radical form of Islam, then you are an infidel. You can be lied to, and killed without any consequences. When you are not even granted basic civil rights, which we here in America take for granted, how do you expect passive resistance to work?
Pacifism helps radical Muslims, just as it helped Hitler during World War II. Pacifism allows the killing to continue.
The proper translation is "Thou shalt not murder". Hebrew has two words, one for kill and another for murder, as do English and most other languages. This cannot be over-emphasised.
I recall in the run up to OIF, Dennis Prager read some letters from some 1st-2nd graders at a Quaker school to the President.It was full of "Don't go to war", "God doesn't like war", "War is bad"....etc. It was the same thing as I was hearing from the adults in the anti-war movement. I had a light bulb moment (the light bulb went on) These people's moral development stopped at about age 6. They are moral midgets.
Exactly.
What it will do is embolden the radicals and we will pay a heavy price for our stupidity.
Pacifism only works when those in power allow it. Basically you must submit to those in power if your a pacifist, ultimately, if they tire of you, body bags and gulags stand ready to be filled.
His righteousness didn't outlive him. India today is a nation partitioned along the very religious lines Gandhi fought.
That can't be considered much of a success, I'm afraid.
From the writing of the greatest mass murderer in the history of man. Mao Teng Sung the first Communist Dictator of China. The muslim facists believe the exact same thing. Dar Islam (peace to the fanatics) is achieved by the conversion of death of the non believer. When all have converted or killed the fanatics will have achieved peace or as they say Dar Islam.
Once the public recognizes what the enemy is we will defeat it. Until the public recognizes it, be afraid.
Pacifism only works if you are protected by those in power. Otherwise, the enemy will come and kill you. Our pacifists have the luxury of being pacifists because they know we non-pacifists will protect them and they'll never have to put it to the test.
Being from the South, I can say that MLK staved off a violent racial revolution and redirected all that anger into a civil one because he pointed to the example of Jesus. He paid for it with his life but he profoundly changed the South.
My own mother was a Head Start teacher many years ago and had to attend Tuskegee College for a year as part of her work. As you may know, Tuskegee College (now University) is a black school. She was astonished at the rage and anger toward whites. In fact, she was advised to never leave her room without a guard (she didn't). MLK redirected that anger (and it was substantial) to Jesus.
And as to Jesus, His death was the price He paid for you and me. His resurrection was no less important...but you get my point.
That's not fair!
I'm callin' the ACLU!!
Reason #72,812 why the play the 3 Stooges themesong when you walk into a room, and not Hail To the Chief.
No, the reason is (like with the liberals), you are too chicken to admit the truth...
radical islam is a meaningless fluff phrase.
NON radical islam has to repudiate the Koran and thus is not islam.
Radical Islam is MAINSTREAM islam.
The movie Obsession pretty much put that one to rest.
Me? Liberal? Not hardly. What I am is
1 someone who's not a nutter
2 someone how thinks it's a good idea to win this war, not give OBL what he wants.
Not only that, there are sub sects within Wahhabis that advocate killing Muslims who believe in freedom, democracy, voting, women rights, basically anybody who doesn't think we shouldn't be living in the 8th century under Sharia law when Islam was primitive and supposedly pure
Those are the people killing other Muslims in Muslims countries like Iraq, Egypt, Algeria, Afghanistan, Chechen and etc. ad nausea
To think these people can be negotiated with is insanity
Yes, but the difference was that essentially the government (power) was on the side of blacks, even if not willingly in some cases. Besides, resisting evil does not mean going on a slaughter campaign against anyone perceived as a member of the enemy group, as the "Black Power" movement thought of it; there are intermediate terms, and even passive resistance is resistance.
An individual or even a group resisting unjust laws or treatment through passive resistance is one thing; thinking that pacifism is going to be a successful national policy in the face of an enemy who wants to kill or enslave you is another.
Pacifism is a loser against Islamofascism but the Dems will probably whine, cajole and force the Baker Commission to persuade the Bush 41 dandies to tell W 'we must be sensibile here and retreat a bit.' I pray W will not retreat and try to keep winning this battle. The Dems will get us all killed. That lesson will have to be learned all over again for the voters when the Islamos hit us again.
I think you know that you and I are of the same opinion re: islam.
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