Forget democracy and bring home troops, Bush will hear

UK Telegraph ^ | Nov. 12, 2006 | Philip Sherwell

[FairOpinion]

A commission of experts appointed by President George W Bush will advise him to abandon his dream of cementing a new democratic system in Iraq and instead tackle the security crisis so that the withdrawal of American troops can begin.

The advice from the Iraq Study Group, a high-level bipartisan panel headed by James Baker, the former Republican secretary of state, will sideline the so-called Bush doctrine of spreading democracy in the Middle East. Mr Bush will meet the panel tomorrow and Tony Blair is expected to offer his views via a video-conference call on Tuesday.

Mr Gates is a member of the Iraq Study Group and has been a strong critic of his predecessor's handling of policy in Iraq and the use of pre-war intelligence. He will provide the White House with the political cover for changes that would have been unthinkable a few months ago.

The Baker panel, which has been charged with looking at all options for Iraq, is expected to recommend a phased US troop withdrawal, timed to accord with deadlines for Iraqi forces' taking responsibility for specific security zones.

[backtothestreets]

No more this "democracy nation-building" utopia crap.

I'll buy into that. Democracy by its very character must be attained by self-determination, and only within societies where citizens share a respect for life.

PLUS ... Anyone that knows an iota of history would know that democracy is not a fix for all the ills of a nation. Hitler and Mussolini gained power within democracies. If democracy alone were the answer, some 50 or 60 million people would not have perished during WWII.

Nation building is the stuff liberal idealists. It can only succeed once ALL the enemies are first killed or captured.

[Pelayo]

PLUS ... Anyone that knows an iota of history would know that democracy is not a fix for all the ills of a nation. Hitler and Mussolini gained power within democracies. If democracy alone were the answer, some 50 or 60 million people would not have perished during WWII.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say for some time. But I usually get shut down because my position doesn't jive with the orthodox ideology of the times. I don't think any of the neo-Wilsonians appreciate the appeal fundamentalist Islam will probably have in a democratic Arab world. As I wrote earlier, in all likelihood as soon as true democracy takes hold of the Muslim world Israel will be toast.

[leadpenny]

The difference in WWII is that the American people didn't forget Pearl Harbor.

No one has forgotten 9-11 either. The difference is that FDR went to war with the country mobilized. W didn't.

As for Vietnam - - that was all LBJ's and McNamara's war and we should not have ever gone past the advisor phase.

[afnamvet]

Happy Veterans Day Ronnie, we were the best we had.

[afnamvet]

We cannot be this weak.

Our will to prosecute a war is weak.

[jonrick46]

Very well said. This is a war we had better decide we must win. To show the world we are unable to win a guerrilla war says we are vulnerable and can be defeated. To show the world that we do not have the stomach to suffer 3000 casualties says that we are too comfortable and self indulgent to make the necessary sacrifice for our fellow man to be a world power. Our first objective is to win this war. Nothing else. If we need to suspend democracy in Iraq, we can shut it down until there is victory. If we need to suspend the Geneva Accords, then let's put them on hold until we torture those terrorists for enough information for victory.

We need to have the stomach to win at all cost. We need to put aside our disgust of war. We need to be able to roll in the blood and soup with our enemies and not worry if some of the stench sticks on us. We can clean up after the victory marches.
We need to execute all of the prisoners of war in Guitanamo. Each one of their bodies need to be sent back to their families to show them what happens when a terrorist is captured. The families of these barbarians needs to feel the same pain that our families feel when a terrorist IED kills one of our sons or daughters. We need to bring home to these barbarians a reality that is beyond this dreamland vision of 72 virgins and a concoction of God the Father that is by the sword.

We need to strike Iran and Syria now. These countries have fed support into the Iraq conflict too long. Diplomacy is not the answer. Diplomacy only gives these evil nations more time to do their evil work. They are a menace to the entire region (just ask Israel) and they are a menace to the world. It is time for the bombs to fall on them. It is time for this nation to show the world that we are no Paper Tiger.

[kuma]

The Kurds have always wanted US as their ally even when we betrayed them in '92. I pray to God we do not betray them again.

I want US to be the country of George Washington not Benedict Arnold.

[AmeriBrit]

In a conversation among a few of us today it was suggested that if we ever live long enough to see the end to the war in the ME, after the troops are finally home we need to search out Soros and give him the same treatment as Saddam as he's just as much an enemy of the U.S. if not greater than Saddam Hussein. Th more I think about it, the more the idea grows on me.

[dakine]

"I guess they mean the E Ring, the innermost part of the Pentagon,"

To be truthful, E-Ring is the Outermost (word?)...

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.

I would like to tell you just how extremely grateful Vietnamese Americans in Little Saigon, California are for our having fought for their Freedom long ago during the Vietnam War.

Someone else is also:

http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/photos/3165/
(Photo Essay)


Happy Veterans Day, my friend, Happy Veterans Day.


http://www.lzxray.com/guyer_set1.htm
(Photo Essay)

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[Chena]

Thank you, AmeriBrit. You have no idea how much it means to me when I read comments like yours. It gives me such hope.

I wish I knew how to knock some sense into some folks, but I fear they will only come to their senses when the worst of the worse happens.

[FairOpinion]

"some folks, but I fear they will only come to their senses when the worst of the worse happens."

I am afraid you are right.

Remember, when President Bush started to fight back against the terrorists, right after the 9-11 attacks, his approval was 88-90%. Now, after we had two successful wars, destroyed a large number of terrorists, haven't had an attack on the US for 5 years, his approval rating is in the 30-s. Dick Morris said a couple of years ago, that President Bush is a victim of his own success -- people aren't worried anymore and are living in denial, because Bush is fighting the terrorists "over there", keeping them from coming over here.

[Pelayo]

Our will to prosecute a war is weak.

You, and the other nam vets, would know better than most. BTW, you were the best anyone could have had the right to asked for.

Perhaps I'm just losing it as my mind is more and more consumed by my academic life, but, as a young man I cannot help but be terrified by my own doubts. The truth is I'm sick of democracy. I go to the polls and vote to continue this war but, regardless of the actual effect my vote has, I'm uneasy in the face of the possibilities. I've got cousins and friends in the military (one who joined right before the war started) and I worry about the legitimacy of my own opinion. After all, I am just a student. When I tell my fellow students how I voted and my reasons for it [not quite the same reasons most have I'm sure] I know they will call me a 'chicken-hawk.' And I can't help but feel they are probably right. If you say, as a veteran, that I voted well I would feel, better, I suppose. But as a mere scholar I can not get rid of my doubts, either about the prospects of this war, or about my own right to voice those doubts. For this issue it would be enough for me that you say it should be done.

I guess the truth is I'm not really democratic material myself. My mind is probably too unbalanced.

I hope you had an otherwise good Veterans Day.

[AmeriBrit]

We need to strike Iran and Syria now. These countries have fed support into the Iraq conflict too long.

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I'm in full agreement but would also add at the same time not to be lax and take our eyes off Russia. They've been a major silent partner against the U.S. and with traitors serving in our government as Congressmen and Senators we have to be on our toes and alert at all times. Our very existence depends on it.

Keep this little speech in mind at all times.

"In November 1987, Mr. Gorbachev made the following statements to the Politburo "Gentlemen, comrades, do not be concerned about all you hear about Glasnost and Peretroika and democracy in the coming years. These are primarily for outward consumption. There will be no significant internal change within the Soviet Union, other than for cosmetic purposes. Our purpose is to disarm the Americans and let them fall asleep."

[AmeriBrit]

What is going ON here??

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We've been infiltrated by the enemy who are following the instructions out of the Soros Manual.

[pepsionice]

While some folks may not like my analysis...were this a college football game...your University of Alabama team out there fighting for 3 quarters of the game and 40 points ahead...and the referee comes to the sideline to tell the coach and the team that even at 40 points ahead at the end of regulation time...they will still go into overtime, then double-overtime, then triple-overtime...you'd have the wind taken out of your sails.

There is no absolute and clear "achievement" point that this adminstration can point to and say the word "finished". They can't even sit and plan an exit strategy because they know the casuality count will be huge in the final weeks as they exit.

Were this a football game as I describe above (a terrible analysis)...the best you can hope for is Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant's ghost stepping out of the shadows and just leading the team off the field. Either you win at the end of regulation or its not worth playing. At the point we caught Saddam...we were in the final two minutes of regulation...we aren't accomplishing much else from that point. We've won the war...lets leave now.

[TomasUSMC]

Hitler and Mussolini gained power within democracies. If democracy alone were the answer, some 50 or 60 million people would not have perished during WWII.

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worth repeating

[AmeriBrit]

I'm amazed at how many have tunnel vision and can think of nothing else but bring the troops home. Not for one second to they consider what consequences there would be to pay if that should happen.

To pull out now and leave it up to the Iraqis to go alone and take care of everything would be the most asinine thing we could do. They are not able to take over the responsibility alone yet and it may be a long time before they can. Every life that's been sacrificed and everything that's been accomplished by our troops would all have been for nothing with a pullout now.

Every American needs to bite the bullet, get behind and support the President and troops for the survival of the western world. Our success in the ME depends on it no matter how long it takes.

[TomasUSMC]

No one has forgotten 9-11 either. The difference is that FDR went to war with the country mobilized. W didn't.

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EX ACT LEEEEEEEEEE

[TomasUSMC]

We need to strike Iran and Syria now. These countries have fed support into the Iraq conflict too long

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WELL SAID.