Posted on 11/03/2006 9:22:45 PM PST by jmc1969
The United States has two options in Iraq: stay and try to win, or cut, run, and lose. Attempts to chart a middle course--partial withdrawal or redeployment, accelerated hand-over to the Iraqis, political deals with Syria or Iran--ignore the realities of the military situation. The real choice we face is this: Is it better to accept defeat than to endure the pain of trying to succeed?
The U.S. military, under the stewardship of CENTCOM Commander General John Abizaid, has worked hard from the outset to avoid creating an Iraqi military that is dependent upon the continued presence of U.S. forces. The fear of such dependency is one of the pillars that has supported U.S. strategy from the outset.
In order to avoid it, the U.S. military has never fully committed to conducting coherent and comprehensive counterinsurgency operations on its own, preferring to wait until the Iraqis are able to undertake them. We are still waiting, and the insurgency is strengthening its organization and inciting chaos through mass murder and sectarian violence.
The Iraqi military, unfortunately, is still a work in progress. Although there are growing numbers of trained Iraqi soldiers formed into increasingly competent tactical units, those units remain highly dependent on American logistical support for food, shelter, ammunition, and transportation.
Baghdad can still be pacified, but it will require a change of approach and more troops--probably on the order of 50,000, most of them deployed to the capital. The aim would be to clear and hold the Sunni Arab neighborhoods, in the first instance, both to prevent violence within them and to protect them from attacks from their Shiite neighbors. After each operation, we would need to leave behind significant numbers of U.S. troops to preserve the gains, along with such Iraqis as are available.
(Excerpt) Read more at weeklystandard.com ...
I am going to say until I am blue in the fingers:
The tactical situation in Iraq will be resolved when the strategic situation in Iran is resolved.
Al Qaida in Iraq has been dealt a severe blow. They are not the issue.
The will be the issue if the Sunnis are left to the mercy of Shia extremism.
"Al Qaida in Iraq has been dealt a severe blow. They are not the issue."
No, al-Qaeda in Iraq is still extremely strong and controls most of Ramadi and many Anbar towns.
But, Khilizad was in Anbar two days ago and was helping to set up the groundwork for an all out Fallujah style operation on Ramadi after the election.
Even then we need many more troops in Western Iraq to solidify any such gains made by going on the offensive after the election.
If this is the start of a civil war and I emphasise the word IF....I am concerned about our future posture. I have never heard of a third party to a civil war that did not pick a side. What side should we pick? We can't side with the shia as they already have a sponsor and it is our enemy. The only other option would be to support the sunni and hope to put Iraq back the way it was. Or a third way would be to support breaking Iraq in three. I don't pretend to be smart enough to know the best option but I do know we have to avoid a civil war at all costs.
Al Qaida in Iraq is only relevant because some elements of Sunnis population feel the need to ally themselves as protection against the Shia.
If we were to remove the Jeish Al-Mahdi (and deal their masters in Tehran a blow), then the rest of the support for the Ansar al-Sunnah and the MSC would dry up.
There is no civil war in Iraq. A Civil war exists when two or more opposing parties within a country resort to arms to settle a conflict or when a substantial portion of the population takes up arms against the legitimate government of a country.
This a sectarian war. This is settling old scores and trying to force the US out of the Middle East. It's part of the war that Iran started in 1979. They know once we leave we aren't coming back.
Is it better to accept defeat than to endure the pain of trying to succeed?
No. Next question.
Congressman Billybob
Latest article: "The Truth about the War"
Please see my most recent statement on running for Congress, here.
But with that arrangement, which was necessary at the beginning of that nation during the Middle Ages, the Swiss now have a thoroughly workable nation which has endured for more than 500 years. That's an excellent track record, and it is a good example of the kind of federation which should work for Iraq as well.
Congressman Billybob
Latest article: "The Truth about the War"
Please see my most recent statement on running for Congress, here.
Agree fully, as long as Iran and Syria are allowed to continue to interfere, stability and victory are impossible.
Like the USSR and PRC in Vietnam, but on a smaller scale, it's near impossible to defeat an enemy when they receive unimpeded logistical, manpower and material support from outside forcs on their borders.
The administration's failure to confront Iran and Syria over their interference in Iraq has been one of their great failures, and a near unforgivable sign of weakness.
If you compare to Germany and Japan in WW2, Japan was an Island with no outside powers supporting any resistance after the war and Germany also had no outside powers on its borders, it was surrounded 100% by Allied/Soviet forces and the Swiss, who weren't involved.
Trying to fight a war and run an occupation is very difficult if you allow your enemies access to unimpeded and uninterrupted limitless outside support.
even if we succeed in Ramadi, its whack a mole. they'll be back as soon as we leave. and the forces we allocate to Ramadi will leave us vulnerable elsewhere. it really is a pickle we're in
The author points out that the Army has been overtaxed, that soldiers have been deployed multiple times, that only stop-loss orders maintain current levels, and then calls for 50,000 more troops.
He gave an interview on PBS two days ago. He believes it would be painful, but that we could do it if we wanted to and he said awhile ago that a loss in Iraq would damage the Army and the American psyche far more then if we doubled the troops in Iraq.
I agree.
I supported this war partly on the assumption, based on Afghanistan and Bush's rhetoric and "with us or against us" doctrine that either a)our victory in Iraq would be so decisive and overwhelming and we'd be in such a position of strength and have such overwhleming force and a willingness to use it that Iran and Syria wouldn't dare get involved or b)if they did choose to get involved, we would immediately and decisively deal with it and c)they'd be next on the list
If I had known that we'd let them run roughshod, I may have had a different view of things.
What a great way to put it! I had not really thought about it in those terms, but you have hit it exactly. Were a pollster to ask me if I was happy with the war I would have to say "no", but for a very different reason from others who would say no also. I want us in there to win and I want us to do whatever it takes to assure that victory. I don't care if the rest of the world likes us or not, I'll settle for their fear of us. We are a joke to the Islamofascists, with our quaint ideas of how to fight an enemy. Our insistence on a PC war only prolongs the war and increases the number of deaths, on both sides. We have nothing to gain by delaying the day of reckoning for Iran and Syria, and anyone else in the region who thinks they can outlast us. If it's dangerous to take on Iran now, how much more dangerous will it be when they have nuclear weapons, regardless of how small or primitive?
The Lefties/MSM cost us the war in Viet Nam and they are intent on doing the same in Iraq. This Tuesday's election is so very important. It will become a rallying cause for whichever side wins. For us it will mean it's time get serious with Iraq and its neighbors. For them a win will be seen as support for a cut and run movement.
I can't tell you how often and fervently I pray the Lord will kick a lot of Right and Republican butts out of bed and into the polls on Tuesday. Like my Mom used to say, "Don't make me come in there and settle this for you!"
"The United States has two options in Iraq: stay and try to win, or cut, run, and lose. "
Precisely!
Thanks for the post & ping.
My pleasure. That does sum it up.
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