A Return to Triangulation (libertarion vs social right)

National Review Online ^ | 10/25/06 | David Boaz & David Kirby

[Blackirish]

As the Republican base fragments and Christian conservatives consider a “fast” from politics, the polling data point to a mid-term Republican thumping. Less than two weeks from now, Republicans will begin their post-mortem soul searching. And as the corpses of their House and Senate majorities grow cold, so should Karl Rove’s 2006 campaign strategy.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Has the "get fisted" account been nuked? Or is that Creationists still posting?

[68 grunt]

Shhhhh, don't mention Francis'es issues ...

[grey_whiskers]

OK, that clarifies it.

I guess what I mean is that God explicity "reserves the right" to get involved at any point He chooses. And often--not always--it would look like an arbitrary change in the rules, because we don't see His hidden hand at work; other times, it would *really BE* a miracle.

In either case, assuming that nature got where it was solely because of fixed laws, which operate today as they "always have", would lead to misleading conclusions.

The annoying part of this is, there is no way to PROVE either way which one of these is true.

So people often break along the theist/atheist boundary. :-)

Cheers!

[Liberal Classic]

He's in this very thread.

[SoldierDad]

Hey, nothing wrong with reading fiction.

[Coyoteman]

I'm not trained in the field, but others are and although there are not as many "doubting" radiometricians as there are like you in your camp, I suggest that as the scientist you claim to be that you begin questioninng your beliefs and your "science" - science is not written in stone you know. Genius men of science of the past really and truly believed in the theory of humors causing disease for example...or understanding human behavior by measuring skulls....phrenology was it?

When I have time I will look up the "other side' in your field however. Are you familiar with the critical literature or is your field one sided and intellectually blocked to any inquiry?

I am familiar with both the literature on radiocarbon dating and with the creationist websites' distortions of that literature.

I welcome questions at any time.

I may be the only poster on FR who has actual experience with radiocarbon dating (coming up on 30 years worth), so I will try to explain things as well as I can.

[eleni121]

I should have known you could dig me up in your archives. I feel like one of stalin's victims as they are led into the cellars of the the Kremlin after being found out that they didn't tow the CP line.

Seriously...I'll get back to you on that when I have time.

[denydenydeny]

There is no small "L" party that I know of,

There's no "Social Conservative" party either. Not every system of belief comes from a party platform.

[metmom]

Gee, everything I let go of falls.

[Dimensio]

Sir Francis Dashwood denies being a "creationist". Given his posting style, I am unable to hypothesize whether he is lying, or merely mentally unstable. However, he is still posting as of this evening, despite telling another poster to "get fisted" in a previous discussion. I do not understand why his account has not been banned in light of that clear violation of the terms of usage for this forum, but I do not have adequate information for meaningful speculation on the issue.

[Beagle8U]

So you admit there does exist a political bias against ID being taught in school.

You also admit that evo isn't an exacting science that you can use any standard testing or experiments to prove.

But you also say that ID can't be taught because its not proved to be a science. OooooK.

[eleni121]

I am familiar with both the literature on radiocarbon dating and with the creationist websites' distortions of that literature.

---

NO you misunderstood. I asked you if there were serious self inquiry in your field permitted...within the field...not from external sources.

[SoldierDad]

You might want to take a look at how you treat people in your comments before you accuse others of mistreating you. If someone disagrees with anything you and your evos friends say, you engage in a smear campaign against them - belittling and impuning them without having the slightest knowledge of who your are putting down. Maybe if you and your evos friends were to strike a milder tone then you wouldn't feel that others are being hostile towards you.

[Jim Robinson]

Whatever, pal. It's your right to turn the channel anytime you get fed up with the "top." Just don't expect me to bend to your will because that ain't gonna happen.

[RunningWolf]

I hear you and agree on all counts.

As you say, there is no need to break along the boundaries at every question mark.

[Mamzelle]

SPAM.

[grey_whiskers]

Last Thursdayism and asserting random miracles unexplainable by science is at least a more honest position. Even though irrational, it at least accepts that the earth and the universe do scientifically appear to be older.

"Last Thursdayism" is about as accurate as calling the Strategic Defence Initiative "Star Wars". If you were merely using it as shorthand, seeing as it is a quick, vernacular term, OK; but otherwise it looks like something between a sneer and propaganda.

"Random miracles unexplainable by science" is almost a tautology. IF you start from the point of view that miracles are the result of deliberate actions by a sentinent supernatural being, they are not *random*. They only look that way because they cannot be deterministically predicted, or even probabilistically predicted on the basis of past physical events and the current state of the system under study. (And if they *are* miracles, then science won't be able to explain them, by definition. Why you feel that means the word must be used as a perjorative is another matter...)

Cheers!

[SoldierDad]

I keep trying to float up into the sky, but the harder I try the more I seem to be grounded. Funny, ain't it?

[Dimensio]

I should have known you could dig me up in your archives. I feel like one of stalin's victims as they are led into the cellars of the the Kremlin after being found out that they didn't tow the CP line.

I do not believe that your analogy is appropriate. I fail to see how asking you to support a claim that does not have any obvious correlation to reality is analagous to the treatment of anti-communists in the Soviet Union during the rule of Josef Stailn.

Seriously...I'll get back to you on that when I have time.

Are you saying that eleven months is an insufficient timeframe for investigating a claim that you have made and providing supporting evidence for it?

[Beagle8U]

"There's no "Social Conservative" party either. Not every system of belief comes from a party platform"

Correct! Social conservatives are a faction of the Republican party.

There are no social conservative Libertarians, that would be an oxymoron.