For the Record ~ We Are NOT A Democracy!

American Chronicle ^ | October 8, 2006 | Daneen G. Peterson, Ph.D.

[ableLight]

"His second request was finally granted in 1913."

Bingo. That was a Hamiltonian concept. Hamilton also believed that the Prez should appoint all state governors. In any case, the change to direct voting for Senators turned the Congress effectively into a unicarmel legislature.

[ableLight]

Andrew Jackson was an anti-federalist. As for my last post, it might have sounded confusing. I meant that Hamilton supported the appointment of Senators by the legislature of their state. Madison agreed and it was originally in the Constitution until an amendment changed Senate appts. to direct vote. In that case, there's no reason to have two Houses.

[maine-iac7]

"...and to the Republic..."

"The Federalist", reprinted in 1998, is still available.

It contains the papers written, under pen names (the better to keep their heads) by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Day, leading up to the Constitution and a new country - a REPUBLIC -

It's a vital education in what the Founding Father's were thinking and what they REALLY envisioned in the Constitution.

It also contains much other valuable information, including The Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation and the Constitution of the U.S. along with the amendments...

It's a BIG book full of BIG ideas - that spawned a BIG, free nation.

The Constitution now hangs by a thread, with vicious enemies within determined to cut that last thread.

We the People will need to roll up our sleeves and fight hard and furious, as did the Founding Fathers, to keep that from happening.

Those who now think that letting the dimrats back in power will "teach the pubbies a lesson" have their heads, (polite version) in the sand. We are fast bypassing even a democracy - straight into Socialism.

The democratic party has been totally infiltrated and taken over by the "Democratic Socialist Party of America." Believe it and fight it or learn to live under Socialism.

[Publius]

Andrew Jackson was an anti-federalist.

Anti-federalist? Hmm-m-m-m. Jackson's activities during the debate over the Constitution have not been recorded.

He first entered politics as a congressman and senator from North Carolina and sided with Jefferson's Republicans. This was before he migrated and got involved in the rough-and-tumble of Tennessee politics.

When he first began making national political noises, he was not known for having any particular political opinions. He was the warrior. However, Martin van Buren roped him into William Crawford's Radical Republican movement, which made strict constructionism and states' rights a sacred cause. This segment of Jefferson's party ended up becoming the Democratic Party upon Crawford's death.

Hamilton's five hour grand design speech that opened the Constitutional Convention not only had the "governor of the United States" appointing the states' governors, it also gave Congress veto power over any act of a state legislature.

But his speech went even farther than that. Hamilton proposed abolishing the states then in existence and freeing the counties to form any number of states they wished. But these states would simply be administrative subdividions of the federal government and possess no sovereignty.

After Hamilton made his speech, there was a deadly silence, followed by some muttering. Then George Washington, president of the convention, uttered the polite 18th Century equivalent of "Next!"

[Publius]

In addition to the Federalist Papers, pick up a copy of the Anti-Federalist Papers. My edition has an appendix with a chronology of when each paper was published.

If you read each paper in strict chronology, you watch the ebb and flow of debate. Madison will make a statement in one paper, and one or two papers later, Brutus or the Federal Farmer or Melancton Smith will respond. Then Hamilton will respond to those new points one or two papers later. It's a very dignified and scholarly point-counterpoint.

[Captainpaintball]

I guess we don't want to keep our republic, Mr. Frankiln!!!

[maine-iac7]

W is for weasel!

With all that this man has had to - and does - contend with since he took office, he has done one whale of a job.

And then he has to content with johnny one-noters with horse-blinders on as well. It's getting old...

[T.L.Sink]

The Constitution is precisely what makes this a democratic republic. And we have moved this Republic in a more democratic direction through the Amendment process.

All kinds of governments refer to themselves as republics but what makes our republic different from China, or Florence under the Medici's, is that democracy is part and parcel of Constitution itself. It's a republic that can only function within a democratic framework.

[ableLight]

"...Jefferson's Republicans..."

You mean Thomas Jefferson?

"...which made strict constructionism and states' rights a sacred cause."

By definition, an anti-federalist.

[beyond the sea]

The America of the future is going to make the 50's look like a nightmare in comparison to how good its going to be

Dream on.

[caresistance]

Will not matter what happens with the WOT, if we lose the war on our Southern border. I have Cousins living in Maine, perhaps you live their also (screen name?) Except for the Somali's living in Lewiston, they do not understand the magnitude of the immigration problems sweeping across the nation. Those of us along the border know the extent of the problem fiscally and culturally.

[ableLight]

"Hamilton's five hour grand design speech..."

Interesting. Where can I get a copy of that?

[beyond the sea]

I suppose the dumbing down of America has been going on for longer than most people realize.

The dumbing down is basically complete.

A great (thick) book:

The Deliberate Dumbing Down Of America, Socialist Goals Of The Department Of Education --- Charlotte Iserbyte

[Publius]

James Madison took over 600 pages of notes during the Convention. A number of authors have written about the Convention, most of them relying heavily on Madison's notes.

[ableLight]

Come to think of it, that's odd. If in the same speech he advocated dissolution of the States *and* Congressional veto power over the State legislatures that...wouldn't exist?

[ableLight]

Do you know of a publication of the primary source of Madison's notes?

[Publius]

Sorry. No. My favorite book on the Convention is Decision in Philadelphia, by the Colliers, a father and son team of historians. They cover a lot of this stuff, but if you do a literature search, you may find that some university press has pubished Madison's original work.

[Publius]

What Hamilton was suggesting was the dissolution of the old states and the formation of new "states" by the counties. I guess I wasn't clear.

[ableLight]

Oh, I see. Thanks for the reference info. Well, I'm still a strong Federalist all the same but I don't agree with *everything* Hamilton suggested. So far, I only take issue with the dissolution of sovereign states (the symmetry argument) and his idea to have the prez elected by popular vote for life. Roosevelt's attempt to stack the Supreme Court with 12 Justices proves that Presidents don't need to be in office too long!

[ableLight]

I think we could debate how that should be interpreted, however. If Congress were to have veto power over the states then these "new" states would necessarily have to retain *some* sovereignty to govern.

Perhaps what Hamilton was getting at was that the colonial boundaries and state jurisdictions didn't make sense anymore? They were set up by the crown, so I can see that.