US pushed MI5 into airport terror swoop (that foiled the blowing up of the 10 airlines)

Uk Guardian ^ | Oct. 1, 2006 | Jamie Doward and Mark Townsend

[FairOpinion]

The US warned Britain that it was prepared to seize the key suspect in the UK's biggest ever anti-terrorism operation and fly him to a secret detention centre for interrogation by American agents, even if this meant riding roughshod over its closest ally, The Observer can reveal.

American intelligence agents told their British counterparts they were ready to 'render' Rashid Rauf, a British citizen allegedly linked to al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and who was under surveillance in Pakistan, unless he was picked up immediately. Rauf is the key suspect in the alleged plot to detonate explosives on up to 10 transatlantic planes that was exposed in August and, according to the police, would have brought 'mass murder on an unimaginable scale'.

The Americans' demand for Rauf's quick arrest dismayed the British intelligence services, which were worried that it could prompt terrorist cells in the UK working on separate plots to bring forward their plans or go underground. In the weeks preceding his arrest it is understood that MI5 and MI6 discussed with their US counterparts the best way to dismantle the alleged plot. Britain wanted more time to monitor Rauf, but the US was adamant that Rauf should be arrested immediately.

[FairOpinion]

Looks like the UK has us to thank for foiling the terror plot to blow up all those airliners.

[endthematrix]

It's all about conversation, cooperation and coordination.

[sinanju]

Everything I've read states that MI5 knows all, but is afraid to act on that knowledge. I guess a good old fashioned boot-up-the-behind can work wonders..

[Slings and Arrows]

You're welcome.

[FairOpinion]

The foiling of that plot was indeed a major success in the War on Terror and the Bush Administration is not getting any credit for it.

[NZerFromHK]

The US Left of course will not give credit to the US government because it will mean they give credit to BushitlerTM.

Most British of course will not give credit to the US government because it will mean they give credit to the US anti-terrorism policies and agencies, which they scoff.

Both groups deserve big thumbs down.

[denydenydeny]

And how did they know about Rauf?

Could it be the dreaded (ominous music) wireless intercepts?

[jazusamo]

That's right. As soon as it happened the lefties were saying we didn't do a thing, it was the Brits who did it all. Doesn't look like that was the case.

[sageb1]

"Tellingly, although Britain's Home Secretary, John Reid, was full of praise for the part played by Pakistan in uncovering the alleged plot, the US did not pay tribute to the country's role."

I believe we did, actually.

[Walkingfeather]

"The intelligence source said the alleged plot had not been at the advanced planning stage."

Well for God's sake lets wait till the last possible moment we can before we arrest him. No need to spoil our weekend plans now don't you know?

[bigfootbob]

bttt

[FairOpinion]

If you wait too long, you might lose the terrorist forever and the next time you hear about him is AFTER he blows up the planes. That's what the US was afraid of.

[Question Liberal Authority]

So even the THREAT of intense interrogation can stop terrorist plots dead in their tracks?

Why are we against that, again?

[FairOpinion]

Read this very interesting article about the effectiveness and lack of permanent damage of waterboarding, which has just been outlawed in the current terror bill approved by Congress.

The Case for Waterboarding (very interesting article)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1710489/posts


Although waterboarding is normally employed as the last resort and the frequency of its use kept secret, it has been made known that so far it has worked every time it has been tried. Thanks to its extraordinary efficacy, we have been able to obtain a great amount of critical intelligence that would have otherwise remained inaccessible. With the help of this information we have captured al-Qaeda operatives, stopped deadly plots, and saved many innocent lives. One of the fruits of Mohammed’s confession, to give one example, was the thwarting of a conspiracy to fly an airliner into the Library Tower, the tallest building in Los Angeles.


It is widely agreed that the horrors of 9/11 took place primarily because of our intelligence gathering failures. The fact that at the time we had in our custody the 20th hijacker makes this tragedy all the more painful. Even though we suspected that Zacarias Moussaoui knew something big was in the works, we did not interrogate him aggressively enough to extract this information from him. Had we done so, things could have turned out differently. One of the primary objectives of waterboarding is to bring forth the kind of intelligence that will prevent tragedies like 9/11 from occurring again.



Rather than depriving our interrogators of this tool for wresting intelligence from recalcitrant terrorists, we must ensure that it is available whenever the need arises. Our government officials would do well to remember what the stakes are and whose protection they have been entrusted with. Once they do so, they cannot but recognize that our government not only is fully justified in utilizing this invaluable technique, but has a moral obligation to use it to save lives.



And as far as opponents of waterboarding are concerned, I have these questions to ask: Are a few moments of a terrorist’s discomfort more important than the lives of the innocents he seeks to destroy? Are two minutes of Moussaoui’s anguish worth more than the three thousand lives lost on 9/11? Does his momentary pain override a lifetime of hurt of those left behind?


If you can’t answer in the affirmative then hold your peace.

[GoforBroke]

Render

[jwh_Denver]

LR

[nathanbedford]

Separately, it has emerged that a senior government official has joined a growing list of experts to warn the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have exacerbated the threat from Islamic terrorism.

This is the other side of the proposition which hails the war in Iraq as a place where we are killing terrorists who therefore cannot mount an attack on our homeland because they are so preoccupied in Iraq where they are sustaining such terrible losses. I think this argument is the sheerest self delusion. To believe that in a potential pool of 1.3 billion Muslims, the enemy cannot find another 19 suicidal maniacs to attack our homeland is just plain silly. To believe that we can protect America by attriting terrorists in Iraq is to advocate a policy of shoveling flies. If that is the reason we are waging war in Iraq, we are doing so without any coherent policy. Attrition is precisely the wrong strategy to employ an asymmetrical warfare and one guaranteed to put appeasers in the White House who will pull Americans out of Iraq, setting off a catastrophic chain of consequences.

But the proposition quoted above is also fallacious. If the enemy only needs 19 men to inflict a devastating strike on our homeland, the creation of a few thousand more, or even a few hundred thousand more terrorists, in a sea of potentially millions of terrorists, is irrelevant.I believe this is the basis for this assertion because it is mooted with increasing frequency - that the Iraq war serves as a recruiting tool for al Quaida.

Wars of terrorism are not won by body counts, they are not won by holding turf, they are won by intelligence and by turning their coreligionists against them. It is upon this basis that the war in Iraq must be judged a success or failure and not on the two false propositions cited above.

[Tommyjo]

And you believe everything that you read in the papers? Pure speculation that neither side will ever confirm. Journalists spinning to please their editors and boost newspaper sales.

[dennisw]

American intelligence agents told their British counterparts they were ready to 'render' Rashid Rauf, a British citizen allegedly linked to al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and who was under surveillance in Pakistan, unless he was picked up immediately.

Dang! we missed a chance to waterboard a POS terrorist

[Eagles Talon IV]

"The intelligence source said the alleged plot had not been at the advanced planning stage."

The plot was busted only about 10 days before the planned date of execution if my memory serves me.