Don't let the potheads ruin freedom

The Prometheus Institute ^ | 9/5/2006 | Editorial

[tang0r]

Generally, there are two types of marijuana users. First is the most commonly stereotyped “stoner,” depicted in the media of movies (e.g. Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High) and television (e.g. Shaggy from Scooby Doo). These are the dead-end job, ambitionless abusers who ingest marijuana to escape their already dismal lives. They represent the image which is most often associated with marijuana use. Certainly, the average American high school is teeming with similar directionless pot-smoking losers, further cementing this public perception.

[Mojave]

Anyone who would steal to get herb

Stealing is dishonest. Like using the word "herb" to hide what you're actually referring to.

[mugs99]

Are you saying that I should become a liar...for the children?
Are you saying my words are to blame for your lack of parenting skills?
How many have become drug abusers because of the abundance of cheap drugs caused by your crusade to banish temptation?
How much heartache do you think you've caused to the families who have lost loved ones to the violence caused by your crusade to banish temptation?
How many liberties have been lost to your crusade to banish temptation?

I won't mince words here either. Your crusade to banish temptation has unleashed evil on a scale not seen since slavery.
.

[PaxMacian]

"Apparently you believe that smoking pot makes you rightous..."

You obviously do not have any idea as to what I believe.
But, you would be glad to force your own belief upon me.
Religious liberty is the foundation of this great nation.
You subscribe to the heresy of evil having substance, yet
deny the evil in actions taken by your side which are
adverse to the expressed will of God in the word. Nobody
is any less a Christian for partaking of an herb, however
persecuting a Christian for partaking of an herb will
assuredly not bring anyone any closer to the Holy Spirit.
However, the persecuted Christian can only get closer to the
Holy Spirit.

[PaxMacian]

Nothing is hidden in the truth!

[William Terrell]

I have no wish or desire to be "in charge" of any man made government.

You miss the point. The point a philosophical maxim not vulnerable to argument.

If you cheer on an event, you want it to happen, and if you don't object to the way it's carried out, you want it carried out that way, whatever your reason for advocacy. If you were put in charge of the event, you would either carry it out the way you have condoned, or you will be a hypocrite.

Let's be clear here.

In all the Old Testament and New Testament there are not references to taking herbs for enjoyment. None. All your cites, other than Paul's list of conditions that will keep you from the Kingdom, are for the purpose of painting a general background of scripture that will lend color to your only reference.

The reference is to "witchcraft". There is none other in the Bible. That comes from the Greek word "pharmakeia" relating to pharmacy, or medicine. There four meanings: drug taking or giving, poisoning, practice of idolatry and the allegorical use to give another practice that implication.

Words used in scripture, as is done everywhere today, have different meanings determined by the context. We have those four meanings. Knowing the recurring theme of scripture, wouldn't you think that poisoning (evil done to another) and idolatry (offense to God) be what Paul was referring to?

Remember this is the only reference you have. If taking drugs for recreation, and that purpose only, were important, there would be other places in the scripture that specifically mention it, like alcohol. There isn't, anywhere.

The only remotely credible attachment you can have is the use of the herb as a part and the purpose of idol worship.

Will you please tell me some kind of reasoning that tells you that people smoke cannabis as a part of idolatrous ceremony? I don't see it.

I've seen people take it to enhance their enjoyment of outdoors, listen to music, watch movies, shorten a long trip, make repetitious task more pleasant, at the beach, in the amusement park, et endless cetera.

I have never seen anyone take it as a sacrament to the One God.

Or are you saying that any physical enjoyment in life from the planet around us is idol worship?

Or do you just have a preexisting bias based in fear against a earthly herb and need some authority to make people listen to you? In this case, I guess any approach will serve if it supports your bias, but give me some solid, unambiguous Biblical reference, not something that has so many other interpretations, more scriptually supported than yours is.

You should know that your bias has nothing to do with God and His law; it has only to do with you and those who agree with you.

In that case, you, and those who agree with you, should stay away from cannabis; it will do you ill because of your belief in its harm, as mentioned by Paul in at least one place, in one of the letters.

Your's, and your group's, is not the only viewpoint. It is one of many. Many Christians, and not liberal by any means, reject your supposition.

You should be preaching your viewpoint in the arena of accepted spiritual practice, for the edification of listeners, for their consideration and possible acceptance.

What you are doing is taking your method of living life and seeking to impose it by the brutality of man's law executed by a Godless government on everyone.

To me, that is evil. Sorry.

[William Terrell]

I would say that kids with young, impressionable minds should stay off FreeRepublic without their parents supervision. We talk about adult topics here. If a parent lets a child loose on FR, that parent is in error.

Herbs of this nature are not for children. They are for adults, ready to take the responsibility of management of same, and the freedom to do so.

Please, stick to the point.

[Mojave]

Herbs of this nature

Illicit drugs.

[William Terrell]

Illicit drugs.

Natural herbs made illegal by man.

[PaxMacian]

You are starting to get the hang of that newspeak.
But, "illicit drugs" refers to the power of the state
to ban substance and as this is a gov't of the people
we can not have that inherent conflict expressed in
identification. Doubleplusungood is sufficient
description, comrade. Afterall, we can't have the people
believing that this ban is not for their own good.

[DouglasKC]

I won't mince words here either. Your crusade to banish temptation has unleashed evil on a scale not seen since slavery.

I never realized that smoking dope and slavery were so similar.

And I certainly look forward to the day when all temptation is ended. The bible says about temptation:

Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jam 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren

The temptation to smoke pot first begins when someone lusts for the high that it brings. Those who smoke dope know exactly what this is.

[DouglasKC]

Apparently you believe that smoking pot makes you rightous..."
You obviously do not have any idea as to what I believe.

So you do not believe that smoking pot makes you righteous?

[mugs99]

And I certainly look forward to the day when all temptation is ended.
Well, you could move to North Korea. Temptation has been banished there.

.

[PaxMacian]

Does stealing a man's home for the possession of a gift from God make you righteous?

[DouglasKC]

Remember this is the only reference you have. If taking drugs for recreation, and that purpose only, were important, there would be other places in the scripture that specifically mention it, like alcohol. There isn't, anywhere.
The only remotely credible attachment you can have is the use of the herb as a part and the purpose of idol worship.
Will you please tell me some kind of reasoning that tells you that people smoke cannabis as a part of idolatrous ceremony? I don't see it.
I've seen people take it to enhance their enjoyment of outdoors, listen to music, watch movies, shorten a long trip, make repetitious task more pleasant, at the beach, in the amusement park, et endless cetera.
I have never seen anyone take it as a sacrament to the One God.

Arizona Couple Defend Religious Use of Marijuana

Not too mention Rastafarians.

But that's not the point.

The fact that dope smokers don't join a club (but some do) or announce that they are smoking it for religious purposes (but some do including apparently people on this forum) or have ceremonies doesn't mean that it's NOT being smoked for idolatrous reasons.

An idol can be anything. Money. Cigarettes. Alcohol. Even religion.

The BIG problem with marijuana is that it puts you in an abnormal state of consciousness. It's NOT normal to be doing those things you listed in that state of consciousness. Consciousness is a gift from God. It is the thing that makes us human. It is an attribute of divinity. Our consciousness NATURALLY expands and grows as we learn and experience. It grows primarily by our emotional reactions to experience and events.

In your own words, pot "enhances" enjoyment. That really is a fairly accurate, but not perfect, description. What it really does is to SIMULATE enhancement. It SUBSTITUTES unnatural chemical reactions in your brain for the REAL ones that are supposed to be generated. Your brain doesn't have to work at it anymore.

That's why pot smokers become "burn outs". Everything is gray to them when not smoking pot because the chemical reactions that are supposed to impinge on our consciousness are not being manufactured anymore. No joy. No happiness. No elation. Just burn out sameness. You know this is true.

That's why pot smokers say it "expands their mind".

And it doesn't matter what quantity is smoked. It's the same reaction, the same shortcut, to true experience.

What essentially happens is that you STOP growing, mentally, emotionally and ultimately spiritually, when you smoke pot.

Christianity is all about growing, overcoming, adapting and changing. The elements that marijuana mimics (mimics, not duplicate) are the very elements that God designed in our bodies for the purpose of bringing US to HIM.

That's why marijuana use is idolatrous. That's why it was used in pagan ceremonies and the bible is crystal clear that pagan practices are abhorrent to God. Remember, Satan is the master deceiver. That idolatry is still there, just under the new, improved name of "recreational use" and "enjoyment".

[PaxMacian]

Your understanding of scripture will be seriously curtailed if you do not have
a grasp of the language.

Lust: The inordinate craving for, or indulgence of, the carnal pleasure which is experienced in the human organs of generation.

The brain and central nervous system have nothing to do with generation.
Besides, Jam 1:15 proves that smoking herb is not a sin, as it does not
"bringeth forth death."

Would you like to continue twisting the word of God to support war while
denying the word in its most literal and easily comprehended form?

Romans 14: 2-3
For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

[DouglasKC]

Does stealing a man's home for the possession of a gift from God make you righteous?

Stealing anything, or even thinking of stealing anything, is not righteous behavior. However, God does endorse the notion of restitution in his model of Godly government:

Exo 22:3 If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
Exo 22:4 If the theft be certainly found in his hand alive, whether it be ox, or ass, or sheep; he shall restore double.

I'm sure to the thief, having to pay back double, or being sold to repay the debt, SEEMED like theft. But in actuality it was the penalty for transgressing the law of Israel at the time.

Do you think that smoking pot makes one righteous?

[DouglasKC]

The brain and central nervous system have nothing to do with generation. Besides, Jam 1:15 proves that smoking herb is not a sin, as it does not "bringeth forth death."

Sure it does. Everyone sins. That's why everyone dies. Smoking marijuana (let's be specific lest someone thinks you're referring to smoking peppermint)is a sin that results in death, same as every other sin.

Romans 14: 2-3 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Again with Romans. Look, as much as you want it to read "smoking marijuana", it's not. It's talking about FOOD.

[PaxMacian]

"An idol can be anything. Money. Cigarettes. Alcohol. Even religion."

There you go again redefining words. Idolatry is giving divine honor to that
which is not God. Nobody is saying that herb is God. Nobody is worshipping
the herb or its image. But, the Bible says that herb is a gift from God.
Yet, you attempt to demonize this substance despite the fact that evil has
no substance and God saw that it was good. You raise yourself above God.

Should we adopt the Islamic definition and tear down the statue of Liberty?
Assuredly, we, as a country, idolize liberty above the law of God or else we
would not be slaughtering the unborn by the millions. If any substance
were to be evil than it would have to be the man made substance RU486,
for it is designed to poison to death the unborn human being.

[DouglasKC]

And I certainly look forward to the day when all temptation is ended.
Well, you could move to North Korea. Temptation has been banished there.

Nope, just different forms.

[PaxMacian]

'oklah (ok-law');  Noun Feminine, Strong #: 402

1. food
   1. food, eating
   2. object of devouring, consuming
      1. by wild beasts (figurative)
      2. in fire
      3. of judgment (figurative)

KJV Word Usage and Count
meat	8
devour	3
fuel	3
eat	2
consume	1
food	1