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To: DouglasKC
I have no wish or desire to be "in charge" of any man made government.

You miss the point. The point a philosophical maxim not vulnerable to argument.

If you cheer on an event, you want it to happen, and if you don't object to the way it's carried out, you want it carried out that way, whatever your reason for advocacy. If you were put in charge of the event, you would either carry it out the way you have condoned, or you will be a hypocrite.

Let's be clear here.

In all the Old Testament and New Testament there are not references to taking herbs for enjoyment. None. All your cites, other than Paul's list of conditions that will keep you from the Kingdom, are for the purpose of painting a general background of scripture that will lend color to your only reference.

The reference is to "witchcraft". There is none other in the Bible. That comes from the Greek word "pharmakeia" relating to pharmacy, or medicine. There four meanings: drug taking or giving, poisoning, practice of idolatry and the allegorical use to give another practice that implication.

Words used in scripture, as is done everywhere today, have different meanings determined by the context. We have those four meanings. Knowing the recurring theme of scripture, wouldn't you think that poisoning (evil done to another) and idolatry (offense to God) be what Paul was referring to?

Remember this is the only reference you have. If taking drugs for recreation, and that purpose only, were important, there would be other places in the scripture that specifically mention it, like alcohol. There isn't, anywhere.

The only remotely credible attachment you can have is the use of the herb as a part and the purpose of idol worship.

Will you please tell me some kind of reasoning that tells you that people smoke cannabis as a part of idolatrous ceremony? I don't see it.

I've seen people take it to enhance their enjoyment of outdoors, listen to music, watch movies, shorten a long trip, make repetitious task more pleasant, at the beach, in the amusement park, et endless cetera.

I have never seen anyone take it as a sacrament to the One God.

Or are you saying that any physical enjoyment in life from the planet around us is idol worship?

Or do you just have a preexisting bias based in fear against a earthly herb and need some authority to make people listen to you? In this case, I guess any approach will serve if it supports your bias, but give me some solid, unambiguous Biblical reference, not something that has so many other interpretations, more scriptually supported than yours is.

You should know that your bias has nothing to do with God and His law; it has only to do with you and those who agree with you.

In that case, you, and those who agree with you, should stay away from cannabis; it will do you ill because of your belief in its harm, as mentioned by Paul in at least one place, in one of the letters.

Your's, and your group's, is not the only viewpoint. It is one of many. Many Christians, and not liberal by any means, reject your supposition.

You should be preaching your viewpoint in the arena of accepted spiritual practice, for the edification of listeners, for their consideration and possible acceptance.

What you are doing is taking your method of living life and seeking to impose it by the brutality of man's law executed by a Godless government on everyone.

To me, that is evil. Sorry.

405 posted on 09/10/2006 9:05:43 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell
Remember this is the only reference you have. If taking drugs for recreation, and that purpose only, were important, there would be other places in the scripture that specifically mention it, like alcohol. There isn't, anywhere.
The only remotely credible attachment you can have is the use of the herb as a part and the purpose of idol worship.
Will you please tell me some kind of reasoning that tells you that people smoke cannabis as a part of idolatrous ceremony? I don't see it.
I've seen people take it to enhance their enjoyment of outdoors, listen to music, watch movies, shorten a long trip, make repetitious task more pleasant, at the beach, in the amusement park, et endless cetera.
I have never seen anyone take it as a sacrament to the One God.

Arizona Couple Defend Religious Use of Marijuana

Not too mention Rastafarians.

But that's not the point.

The fact that dope smokers don't join a club (but some do) or announce that they are smoking it for religious purposes (but some do including apparently people on this forum) or have ceremonies doesn't mean that it's NOT being smoked for idolatrous reasons.

An idol can be anything. Money. Cigarettes. Alcohol. Even religion.

The BIG problem with marijuana is that it puts you in an abnormal state of consciousness. It's NOT normal to be doing those things you listed in that state of consciousness. Consciousness is a gift from God. It is the thing that makes us human. It is an attribute of divinity. Our consciousness NATURALLY expands and grows as we learn and experience. It grows primarily by our emotional reactions to experience and events.

In your own words, pot "enhances" enjoyment. That really is a fairly accurate, but not perfect, description. What it really does is to SIMULATE enhancement. It SUBSTITUTES unnatural chemical reactions in your brain for the REAL ones that are supposed to be generated. Your brain doesn't have to work at it anymore.

That's why pot smokers become "burn outs". Everything is gray to them when not smoking pot because the chemical reactions that are supposed to impinge on our consciousness are not being manufactured anymore. No joy. No happiness. No elation. Just burn out sameness. You know this is true.

That's why pot smokers say it "expands their mind".

And it doesn't matter what quantity is smoked. It's the same reaction, the same shortcut, to true experience.

What essentially happens is that you STOP growing, mentally, emotionally and ultimately spiritually, when you smoke pot.

Christianity is all about growing, overcoming, adapting and changing. The elements that marijuana mimics (mimics, not duplicate) are the very elements that God designed in our bodies for the purpose of bringing US to HIM.

That's why marijuana use is idolatrous. That's why it was used in pagan ceremonies and the bible is crystal clear that pagan practices are abhorrent to God. Remember, Satan is the master deceiver. That idolatry is still there, just under the new, improved name of "recreational use" and "enjoyment".

414 posted on 09/11/2006 7:56:13 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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