Don't let the potheads ruin freedom

The Prometheus Institute ^ | 9/5/2006 | Editorial

[tang0r]

Generally, there are two types of marijuana users. First is the most commonly stereotyped “stoner,” depicted in the media of movies (e.g. Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High) and television (e.g. Shaggy from Scooby Doo). These are the dead-end job, ambitionless abusers who ingest marijuana to escape their already dismal lives. They represent the image which is most often associated with marijuana use. Certainly, the average American high school is teeming with similar directionless pot-smoking losers, further cementing this public perception.

[mugs99]

Maybe so, but our children do not
If you can't raise your own children don't have them.
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[texas_mrs]

Maybe so, but our children do not

If you can't raise your own children don't have them.

I have raised my children already and they didn't use drugs. I'm sure it didn't hurt that they are not legal.

[mugs99]

Pot is insidious to ones spiritual life in that it smoking it generates "feelings" of spirituality that counterfeit true spirituality

"True spirituality" has killed more men, women and children than marijuana.

[mugs99]

I have raised my children already and they didn't use drugs
Then why the 'for the children' bs?

I'm sure it didn't hurt that they are not legal.
Illegal pot is available to any kid who wants it. Illegal drug dealers don't care about age or safety.

"The stated goals of current U.S.drug policy -- reducing crime, drug addiction, and juvenile drug use -- have not been achieved, even after nearly four decades of a policy of "war on drugs". This policy, fueled by over a trillion of our tax dollars has had little or no effect on the levels of drug addiction among our fellow citizens, but has instead resulted in a tremendous increase in crime and in the numbers of Americans in our prisons and jails. With 4.6% of the world's population, America today has 22.5% of the worlds prisoners. But, after all that time, after all the destroyed lives and after all the wasted resources, prohibited drugs today are cheaper, stronger, and easier to get than they were thirty-five years ago at the beginning of the so-called "war on drugs"... Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
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[winston2]

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This thread has logged 284 posts in 30 hours!

I knew cannabis was popular - but - I think it's getting more so.

[monkfan]

More stereotypes, ad-hominems...the writer could have saved himself the trouble and just written "Pot sucks."

Read the rest of the article. The author isn't arguing against pot. He's arguing that we shouldn't punish all [potential] users because of a few burnouts.

[texas_mrs]

Then why the 'for the children' bs?

I didn't say 'for the children'. You did. Legalization implies acceptance. For the same reason, I do not want legalized marriage among gays, it implies acceptance to little kids. Fight for the legalization of drugs all you like - it's obvious you are for it.

I dont think you can ever 'win' the war on drugs. That doesn't mean we should let it become just another part of daily life.

[mugs99]

I knew cannabis was popular - but - I think it's getting more so.

More people are turning against prohibition. Before the internet, government and media controlled the "truth". Things have changed.
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[mugs99]

I didn't say 'for the children'.

tang0r: It is helpful to remember that legality is not social approval, and our laws recognize this.
You: "Maybe so, but our children do not."

it implies acceptance to little kids.
Our Constitution is not based on little kids. Little kids are not a separate species...They grow into adults. If you legislate for little kids you are ignoring the adult that little kid will grow into.

Fight for the legalization of drugs all you like - it's obvious you are for it.
I am for the Constitution and against the un-Constitutional drug war that endangers my kids and grandkids.

Let's look at the facts:
The drug war has increased, not decreased, teen drug abuse.
The drug war has increased, not decreased, availability of drugs.
The drug war has increased, not decreased, drug strength.
The drug war has increased, not decreased, violent crime
The only drug war decrease is the price of illegal drugs.

Marijuana has never killed a kid...the drug war has killed many.
.

[DouglasKC]

The use or administering of drugs. As in pharmacy. What kind of drugs? The Greek pharmacopoeia at that time was extensive. It contained many herbs and potions to relieve various illnesses. Were all those who administered a drug (herb) as, say, diuretic denied the kingdom of Heaven?

Of course not. However, those who employed a drug in order to worship false god's, or attempt to use drugs to enchant, cast spells, or enhance their spirituality are guilty of idolatry...putting a substance ahead of God in worship.

Is alcohol a drug? It certainly alters the mind. If so, was Jesus guilty of "witchcraft"? He certainly drank wine, and administered it.

Drinking wine is clearly not condemned by God. However, there are limits on it's use in religious ceremonies. For example, the priesthood in Israel was warned not to drink at all before entering the presence of God in the tabernacle:

Lev 10:8 And the LORD spoke unto Aaron, saying, Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations:

In new testament times, wine is used symbolically (for those not Roman Catholic) to represent the blood of Christ in the Passover ceremony.

Do you realize that cannabis was in the pharmacopoeia in many parts of the world, and most likely in that part of the world? It is in the English and American today as well? Poppy was used, too, (from the north, I guess) as a physician administered substance. Were the physicians in Israel and Europe denied the kingdom of Heaven?

Everyone is denied the kingdom of Heaven unless they worship the one, true God. I'm not arguing that cannibas wasn't used. Lots of things were and are used by pagans. However what is missing, at least biblically, is any reference to smoking, eating or otherwise getting high with marijuana. An interesting omission if pot was as widely used as you say it was.

We know what Jesus taught. One of the things that He taught was the things that go into a man don't defile a man, but what comes out of a man defiles the man.

This is kind of an oversimplification of what Christ taught. For example:

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Certainly drunkeness is caused by a substance going into your body and yet we see that it apparently does matter what someone puts into their body.

Were you, at first, neutral to or positive toward cannabis, then became aware of the hidden meaning of the word "witchcraft", thereupon you slapped your forehead and said, "Ohmygosh, cannabis is the route to Satan", and were against it at that point?

I was neutral or positive toward it for a long time when I didn't acknowledge God. I was against for a number of years before I acknowledged God when I figured out that it had retarded my growth as a person and when I saw it's negative impact on family members and friends who still smoked. When I became a Christian, it soon became crystal clear who was really pushing marijuana on people.

You might note that we're both guilty of the fifth transgression.

Not the way I see it. I'm attempting to inform you of my position and why marijuana use isn't Godly behavior.

[DouglasKC]

I guess we can agree to disagree. Alcohol is a drug by any definition of the term. Moderation is encouraged, overindulgence is chastised. Look what happened to Noah's son over Noah's falling down drunk episode. It's been busting families from the dawn of human history.

I agree. The bible is absolutely clear that drunkeness is unacceptable. However, there is not any indication that marijuana use is ever condoneded or acceptable to God.

[DouglasKC]

Pot is insidious to ones spiritual life in that it smoking it generates "feelings" of spirituality that counterfeit true spirituality.
Would you say the same thing about quality music, a beautiful piece of art, or natural scenic sights such as the Grand Canyon?

I'm not sure I understand your logic here. Certainly man can look at what God created and marvel at his handiwork.

[tacticalogic]

Much appreciated. Thank you.

You're welcome. And thank you for not feeding the troll. This thread has stayed amazingly intact compared to some of the others of late.

[Zon]

It's interesting, and in retrospect insightful, what transpires when a person chooses to put themselves to task.

One person will search for a quote to support an argument, but cut short the context that's supported by the article's integrity. For that reason, not provide a link to the source so that others cannot easily verify the context for integrity. 232

Another person will put to task of googling the web to locate the source and inspect the context for integrity. Then bring back to a thread an important quote(s) that maintains the integrity that supports the context. 239 

While another person will put to the task of googling to verify a quote they often use only to find a fuller context that compliments the integrity themed in the shorter quote evermore insightful. 258

[William Terrell]

I understand you to say:

1) Taking a substance that alters the normal perception is considered to worship a false god

2) Alcohol in wine is OK because it was widespread and Jesus used it

3) Anyone who ingests cannabis is ipso facto a pagan, removed from the one true God and denied the Kingdom of Heaven

4) Intoxicants in general are OK if not used solely for their intoxicating effect

5) When one becomes aware of God, God communicates that the herb cannabis He created is evil

6) When one has received Christ and serves the One Who sent Him, one is allowed to say his personal experience is the way of God.

Have I summed it up correctly?

You're guilty of the fifth transgression because you attempt to defend a belief built on questionable foundation.

A bonus question for you: Does cannabis sativa bear seed?

[texas_mrs]

It sounds like this is a subject near and dear to you.

I will never believe legalizing pot or any other drug is the right thing to do & you will never believe using it is bad, so shall we just agree to disagree?

[DouglasKC]

I understand you to say: 1) Taking a substance that alters the normal perception is considered to worship a false god

I did not say that. I said "However, those who employed a drug in order to worship false god's, or attempt to use drugs to enchant, cast spells, or enhance their spirituality are guilty of idolatry...putting a substance ahead of God in worship."

2) Alcohol in wine is OK because it was widespread and Jesus used it

Alcohol in wine is not forbidden in scripture, the word of God. However, drunkeness is.

3) Anyone who ingests cannabis is ipso facto a pagan, removed from the one true God and denied the Kingdom of Heaven

Not at all. One can always repent and accept the indwelling of Christ and by that means enter the kingdom of heaven. Christ wouldn't smoke dope and if one has the indwelling of Christ and lets Christ live through them, neither will they smoke dope.

4) Intoxicants in general are OK if not used solely for their intoxicating effect

I would call that a generally true statement.

5) When one becomes aware of God, God communicates that the herb cannabis He created is evil.

Not exactly. God speaks through scripture, but more importantly, when one has God's spirit and exercises it to develop spiritual discernment then it becomes apparent that misusing God's creation by ingesting or smoking marijuana for "kicks" is evil.

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

This discernment is exactly what the author of Hebrews is referring to.

6) When one has received Christ and serves the One Who sent Him, one is allowed to say his personal experience is the way of God.

Not exactly. If his/her personal experience is not scripturally sound, or causes him or her to violate God's law, then their personal experience is not the way of God. God's way is outlined clearly in the bible.

You're guilty of the fifth transgression because you attempt to defend a belief built on questionable foundation.

I disagree that the foundation is questionable. Jesus, the Christ, while incarnate did not smoke pot or encourage others to do so. There is no mention in inspired scripture of pot being smoked or ingested. In point of fact, drugs such as pot have always been associated with pagan worship practices and pagan worship practices are definitely frowned upon by God.

A bonus question for you: Does cannabis sativa bear seed?

You bet. And when used for it's God created purpose, such as birds feeding off its seeds, it is indeed good.

[mugs99]

Sure we can agree to disagree.
I just find it perplexing. Your kids aren't druggies because of your parenting skills, not because of anything the government has done.
Yet you support a government program that costs the taxpayers billions and increases drug abuse and violent crime.

you will never believe using it is bad
Not true. I do believe that using drugs and alcohol is bad. I just don't believe it's worth throwing out the Constitution to stop some people from doing stupid things...People who have taken no rights from me.
.

[mugs99]

In point of fact, drugs such as pot have always been associated with pagan worship practices and pagan worship practices are definitely frowned upon by God.

Not true. It wasn't until 1431 that the church associated cannabis with pagan worship. You must believe that Saint Joan D'Arc was a witch who deserved to be burned at the stake. Her crime was smoking cannabis to hear the voices that led her to victory. Even after her execution in 1431 it took another 53 years before the church was able to stop Christians from using cannabis...and even then it took the threat of torture.

In 1484 Pope Innocent VIII labeled cannabis as an unholy sacrament of the satanic mass and issued a papal ban on cannabis medicines and incense. The papal ban was the beginning of the Inquisition...Which the superstitious are continuing to this day in their attempt to abolish temptation.
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[DouglasKC]

It wasn't until 1431 that the church associated cannabis with pagan worship.

What is your source for this?

You must believe that Saint Joan D'Arc was a witch who deserved to be burned at the stake. Her crime was smoking cannabis to hear the voices that led her to victory.

What is your source for this? I've read accounts that she was crazy, on mushrooms, ate rye bread contaminated with Lysergic acid, or was demon possesed.

In 1484 Pope Innocent VIII labeled cannabis as an unholy sacrament of the satanic mass and issued a papal ban on cannabis medicines and incense.

What is your source for this? Can you point me to a website with the official papal ban?