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To: William Terrell
I understand you to say: 1) Taking a substance that alters the normal perception is considered to worship a false god

I did not say that. I said "However, those who employed a drug in order to worship false god's, or attempt to use drugs to enchant, cast spells, or enhance their spirituality are guilty of idolatry...putting a substance ahead of God in worship."

2) Alcohol in wine is OK because it was widespread and Jesus used it

Alcohol in wine is not forbidden in scripture, the word of God. However, drunkeness is.

3) Anyone who ingests cannabis is ipso facto a pagan, removed from the one true God and denied the Kingdom of Heaven

Not at all. One can always repent and accept the indwelling of Christ and by that means enter the kingdom of heaven. Christ wouldn't smoke dope and if one has the indwelling of Christ and lets Christ live through them, neither will they smoke dope.

4) Intoxicants in general are OK if not used solely for their intoxicating effect

I would call that a generally true statement.

5) When one becomes aware of God, God communicates that the herb cannabis He created is evil.

Not exactly. God speaks through scripture, but more importantly, when one has God's spirit and exercises it to develop spiritual discernment then it becomes apparent that misusing God's creation by ingesting or smoking marijuana for "kicks" is evil.

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

This discernment is exactly what the author of Hebrews is referring to.

6) When one has received Christ and serves the One Who sent Him, one is allowed to say his personal experience is the way of God.

Not exactly. If his/her personal experience is not scripturally sound, or causes him or her to violate God's law, then their personal experience is not the way of God. God's way is outlined clearly in the bible.

You're guilty of the fifth transgression because you attempt to defend a belief built on questionable foundation.

I disagree that the foundation is questionable. Jesus, the Christ, while incarnate did not smoke pot or encourage others to do so. There is no mention in inspired scripture of pot being smoked or ingested. In point of fact, drugs such as pot have always been associated with pagan worship practices and pagan worship practices are definitely frowned upon by God.

A bonus question for you: Does cannabis sativa bear seed?

You bet. And when used for it's God created purpose, such as birds feeding off its seeds, it is indeed good.

297 posted on 09/06/2006 7:58:44 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC
In point of fact, drugs such as pot have always been associated with pagan worship practices and pagan worship practices are definitely frowned upon by God.

Not true. It wasn't until 1431 that the church associated cannabis with pagan worship. You must believe that Saint Joan D'Arc was a witch who deserved to be burned at the stake. Her crime was smoking cannabis to hear the voices that led her to victory. Even after her execution in 1431 it took another 53 years before the church was able to stop Christians from using cannabis...and even then it took the threat of torture.

In 1484 Pope Innocent VIII labeled cannabis as an unholy sacrament of the satanic mass and issued a papal ban on cannabis medicines and incense. The papal ban was the beginning of the Inquisition...Which the superstitious are continuing to this day in their attempt to abolish temptation.
.
299 posted on 09/06/2006 8:44:30 PM PDT by mugs99 (Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.)
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To: DouglasKC
You bet. And when used for it's God created purpose, such as birds feeding off its seeds, it is indeed good.

I don't think there's anything in the Bible about hemp seed only being good for bird seed. I do know where you will find that declaration. You have a strange God.

303 posted on 09/07/2006 5:26:04 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: DouglasKC
worship false god's, or attempt to use drugs to enchant, cast spells, or enhance their spirituality are guilty of idolatry

Which of these do you think people who like to smoke cannabis are doing?

Alcohol in wine is not forbidden in scripture, the word of God.

But alcohol in spirits is?

So one can smoke cannabis then stop smoking it (necessary for repentance) then one can be aware of Christ within himself. Of course, what you're saying is that if one doesn't stop, one hasn't repented of an evil, and is therefore removed from the one true God and denied the Kingdom of Heaven.

Yes?

You agree that intoxicants can't be used for their intoxicating or one is removed from the one true God and denied the Kingdom of Heaven. Unless they stop.

Suppose they use, say, cannabis from time to time, when it comes their way, from time to time get some for a pleasurable purpose. Are they removed from the one true God and denied the Kingdom of Heaven

Who told you that all this?

This is not what Jesus taught, nor even Paul's version of His teachings to the gentiles, "witchcraft" notwithstanding. Paul's list about four things gentiles must do out of the Mosaic law, and taking herbs or strong drink wasn't among them.

The references to Jesus drinking wine for pleasure purposes are several. Whether wine is OK or not in your lexicon, it contains alcohol and gets you high in the degree you choose?

when one has God's spirit and exercises it to develop spiritual discernment then it becomes apparent that misusing God's creation by ingesting or smoking marijuana for "kicks" is evil.

I will smoke cannabis if an opportunity presents itself for nothing else but the euphoric effect. I use spiritual discernment every day. I pray and my prayers are heard and I experienced them being answered countless times (so long as they were righteous). I know God in my heart. God has not said a word to me about any of His plants being "evil".

God is speaking to my heart now. He says Genesis 1:29.

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Good grief. It's a parable. It was spoken, if I'm not mistaken, referring to those who are new and ignorant in the spirit needing milk rather than meat.

I means, and I can't see how this is not obvious, as you live through more and more years, and used your understanding to see the operation of the Gospel in your life, you are able, by that exercising of that perceptual muscle, to be attuned to the nature of people and events with more clarity.

If his/her personal experience is not scripturally sound, or causes him or her to violate God's law, then their personal experience is not the way of God. God's way is outlined clearly in the bible.

Your personal experience is not scripturally sound. God's law is negative; He tells you what is forbidden with the implication of all else is permitted, so long as you accept any physical consequences.

I agree, Gods way is clearly outlined in the Bible, but the interpretation you make of Bible scriptures is entirely in the service of your fear, prejudice and bias.

Nowhere do I find, in the New Testament at least, any spiritual prohibition against using an herb for pleasurable effects. Nor anything that hints such use denies one the Kingdom of God.

You seem to have traveled so far the legalistic way that you have lost light of the love of your fellow men, your neighbors.

You sound like a Pharisee or Sadducee would have in Jesus' time on Earth. I seriously and sincerely think Jesus would have the same problem with this legalism.

The second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself.

Seeing parents torn from their children, families torn apart, children die in dynamic entry raids, the liberties of our God inspired constitutions cratered, the agencies that guard us from the bad hearts of men corrupted by rich seizures, people languishing in prison instead of out serving others because of an herb God put here and told mankind to use, is not love by any definition of the word.

322 posted on 09/07/2006 6:46:34 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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