Posted on 09/02/2006 8:39:06 PM PDT by VictoryIsInevitable
The Conservative Case for Rudy Giuliani in 2008
John Hawkins of Right Wing News makes the conservative case against Rudy Giuliani for 2008. Hawkins’ piece largely consists of the same old anti-Rudy arguments wrapped in slightly new packaging, focusing a lot on Rudy’s decade-old socially liberal positions on a few cultural issues, as well as his Manhattanite personal life and some nonsense about unelectability (more on that later). As such, I think this is a great opportunity for someone to lay out the conservative case for Rudy in ‘08. And that someone might as well be me.
Giuliani: Pro-growth tax-cutter
Rudy Giuliani has proven, both during his tenure as mayor of New York and through his subsequent rhetoric, that he is a pro-growth Republican in the mold of Ronald Reagan, Jack Kemp, and Newt Gingrich. As mayor, Giuliani cut city taxes by more than eight billion dollars, reducing the tax burden on New Yorkers by 22%. Giuliani’s low-tax views remain intact. As Race42008 correspondent Kavon noted yesterday, Rudy’s recent visit to Minnesota included an emphasis on achieving economic growth via low taxes and less regulation on the economy. Rockefeller he ain’t; Rudy’s a Reagan Republican.
Rudy: Gingrich-style government reformer
Conservatives who liked Newt’s welfare reform and GWB’s attempt at entitlement reform have an ally in Rudy. As mayor, Giuliani reformed welfare in New York with the same tenacity as the class of ‘94 in Congress. Once again, this ain’t Christie Whitman we’re dealing with; Rudy’s a Newt Republican who also made a serious attempt to take on the teachers’ unions in NYC and fund school choice via charter schools. A President Giuliani means a conservative reformer who will fight for market-based revisions to our age-old bureaucratic messes in Washington.
Rudy Giuliani: Fiscal conservative
As mayor, Rudy Giuliani cut...
(Excerpt) Read more at race42008.com ...
Rudy can't get a fair shake because:
The Taliban Wing of the Republican party (or, the God, Guns and Gays coalition, as I call them)will tear him to pieces because he is pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-gay rights, divorced, and... GASP!... once wore a dress as a gag. Given the proclivities of the rabid Calvinists in..ahem..our..party, you could have qualifications up the ying-yang and it wouldn't matter.
God forbid that the Mayor of a city that resembled the Western Front circa 1918 in terms of gun crime, should take take steps to control the sale of weapons, likewise for sending the police out to confiscate guns from people walking the streets (or at least to check their registration and paperwork!). To this group, this is tantamount to disarming the population, when in fact it was an effective anti-crime measure, as born out by the murder rate figures in New York City for the Giuliani years. We dropped from a high of just over 2000 murders per year to under 600 in the first two years alone.
Oh, and by the way, I still LEGALLY owned my pistols, shotgun and hunting rifle during those days, and still do, even if don't use them as much anymore.
Likewise, Heaven forfend that a Mayor of a large city should come to the conclusion (the CONSERVATIVE conclusion) that what people do in the privacy of their own homes vis-a-vis their sexual preferences is not an issue for government to get involved with. Unless, of course, you can't wait to frog march the gays into the waiting ovens with the abortion docs (their time will come too, dammit!).
The anti-abortion thing is already overplayed, and many of those who scream the loudest (one way or another) should just quietly return to their padded cells. This is an issue in which government is NOT the solution (either with laws, constitutional amendments or any one of the millions of "strong statements" made in the past). This is a social issue, and as such, it is one that cannot be won until the general attitudes of our society are ready to change. Those attitudes cannot be fostered with legislation, they must be created at the grass roots by other institutions (churches, schools, private groups, etc) who's objectives are MINDS not LAWS. While I personally abhor abortion, the fact is, it is perceived as the law of the land and as a civil right, and on that basis, passing a law (or a mess of them) is a non-starter. The minority (and the supporters of abortion are a minority) will always have it's rights and privleges respected in a republic. Until that minortity becomes a super-super-insignifigant-minority, abortion will stay, no matter what we do. This is not even an issue to be discussed in a political campaign, in my opinion, and too much emphasis is put on it by both sides. What, as Mayor of New York, Rudy could have done to stop abortion or restrict it, is beyond me. Perhaps one of our more pompous and self-righteous Bible-beating brethren will fill me in on it later?
Hmm, the man is divorced? Positively SHOCKING! Gee, I never thought I'd see the day when a DIVORCED MAN might run, or even be considered, for public office! The shame! The outrage! Give me a break. Guess what, Middle America; This ain't the 1950's anymore -- hasn't been for a long time. The world you continually harken back to is dead and buried. Robert Young, Ward Cleaver and Danny Thomas are gone. Happy Days was a TV show. Divorce is not something that disqualifies anyone for anything. No employer would fire you or deny you an opportunity for being a divorced. Businesses dont turn divorced potential-customers away in droves. It certainly shouldn't be a disqualification for elected office.
Wearing a dress? My GOD! Can't you find something else to focus on? It was a goof, a gag, a COMEDY SKIT! I'd bet a dollar to a doughnut that many of the people on this forum who scream about this fact the loudest probably have, at one time or another;
a. Dressed up in drag for a Church play, high school drama club, or local, community theatre.
b. Dressed as a woman at least ONCE for Halloween... or on a drunken bet from their friends.
c. Were probably subjected to regular and severe beatings over the course of their childhood and subsequently have no sense of humor.
d. Had several bad potty-training experiences in their background.
Mind numbed robots? Really! As a native New Yorker, I would tend to think that Rudy did something for us that no other Mayor in my memory (going as far back as Abraham Beame, if I recall) ever did; he straightened this city out and got it work, and he did it quickly and efficiently, too. With lower taxes, lower crime, cleaner streets, and less of the nonsensical PC crap which paralyzes many other city governments.
Why, we liked it so much, we elected him twice. And that's a hard thing to do in this city, where democrats outnumber republicans 3 to 1.
Sometimes, you have to give up something on one front in order to make progress on another, and that's what Giuliani did (ignoring as much as possible the social issues and concentrating on the governmental issues), and it's something the republican party should start thinking about. Chuck the friggin' ideology and religion and give me something that works!
P.S. I'm all ready to seriously ignore the littany of RINO-Rocky-Republican-Queer-Lover crap that is sure to follow this response. For those of you who will not be able to pass up the opportunity to indulge (because of that unfortunate brain injury), let me say it now: get a LIFE, and a vasectomy, please. I DON'T CARE.
Longtime lurker?
Last time i checked president bush signed the partial birth abortion ban, something clinton vetoed.
Cute, referring to the biggest chunk of the republican party as the taliban wing of the party. You sound like a nut at democratunderground.
Our problem with rudy isn't that he's divorced, our problem is his numerous affairs.
More or less.
But I've heard from SO many liberals that they'd vote for a pro-choice republican in a HEARTBEAT. Ahem.
And I'm sure Newt Gingrich's affairs don't bother you at all? (PS, I'd rather see Newt run,personally).
Last time I looked, someone had taken the trouble to write something along the lines of "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." a long time ago, but apparently, that doesn't count anymore under certain, selective conditions.
And get serious; biggest chunk of the party? I remind you it's the REPUBLICAN party, and you're with us simply because there is no Fascist party that isn't laughed at, and because Ross Perot turned out to be a cruel joke. While I do consider myself as possessed of some conservative beliefs, I'ma Republican first, and I'm not so dumb as to believe that Conservatism holds all the answers to society's ills. Perhaps if more thought this way, we wouldn't be debating the potential candidacy of a qualified individual or have a party that takes a non-entity like a George Allen or a Bill Frist seriously.
Is Rudy such an ideologue on abortion that he'd nominate a pro-choice liberal to the supreme court? My guess is no.
A year or two ago that issue may have concerned me. Not that Rudy is The man, but Im going to be looking past domestic issues for a candidate that will not be afraid of the UN and put Iran and North Korea down once and for all.
What good are domestic issues if the nation is a glowing rubble after an Iranian or North Korean nuke attack.
I pray for a candidate that will share my domestic concerns as well as foreign policy. But, at this moment in time, our survival as a society is at stake. The War On Islamofascists trumps all in my opinion.
By the way, he's also a cross dresser. Imagine a Hillary vs Giuliani. I can see Rudy coming out in a dress and Hillary in her pants suit and dyke haircut.
Wireman, you got any sugesstions just who that candidate will be that will defeat HIM and the Islamofacsists?
I know it sounds sarcastic and rhetorical but Im actually serious with that question. It's been in my head for the last few months already.
Defeated by who?
I wish that weren't the case (his numerous affairs) because he's the only name out there right now that I don't think will flinch in the face of the Islamic threat.
"Is Rudy such an ideologue on abortion that he'd nominate a pro-choice liberal to the supreme court? My guess is no."
What Rudy WOULD do is nominate qualified judges. Don't fall into the trap of "he'll uphold Roe V. Wade!" hysteria. That's a hypothetical argument made in lieu of logic and given the patina of considered wisdom. Last time I looked, Bush successfully ensconced two conservatives on the SCOTUS(Alito and Roberts)and Roe V. Wade is STILL on the books. Amazing how quickly this has been forgotten; according to the ideologues, all we had to dowas get a conservative majority on the court and all those evil things like abortion and affirmative action would go the way of the dodo bird. I guess there was a slight flaw in that theory, huh?
"Defeated by who?"
I'd say Newt Gingrich looks downright presidential,and has considerably more experience in Washington (and intelligence) than most of the current "front-runners".
I believe a Gingrich/Giuliani ticket is about the best we could hope for, if Condi doesn't get involved (in which case, I'd like the Newt/Condi combo, personally).
The Big Apple has always been a political sewer controlled by the ruling class of liberal elites, of which Giuliani is a member in good standing. Just like Mike Bloomberg, a converted Democrat but a liberal to the core.
Liberal politics may sell in some parts of the country, like NYCity and California, however, if you think that Giuliani`s politics will sell in mainstream America, you're out of touch with the nation. Giuliani gets credit for getting tough on crime and bringing some fiscal sanity to the city budgets. That doesn't make him a conservative or the right leader for America either. Btw, Giuliani didn't end crime in NYCity. Today, crime is down under Mayor Bloommberg. That doesn't mean conservatives are gonna run out and support Mayor Mike for POTUS. LOL
Giuliani`s own words and actions are all the proof any conservtaive needs to conclude, RudyG isn't the right candidate for the GOP in 2008. Giuliani`s support for a citywide sanctuary policy for illegal aliens and his support of special rights for homos, should be enough to disqualify Rudy by every conservative in America. Not to mention his support for abortion on demand, partial birth abortion and more gun control.
If you run round saying in public:
“I’m pro-choice. I’m pro-gay rights,” Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. “No, I have not supported that, and I don’t see my position on that changing,” he responded. [Mayor Rudy Giuliani on CNN`s “Inside Politics” Dec 2, 1999.]
Fact: You're a liberal.
If you go around saying in public:
We need a federal law that bans all assault weapons ... [Mayor Rudy Giuliani, MAYOR'S MESSAGE, Sunday, March 2, 1997
and
I only hope that.... Congress is finally ready to recognize that the vast majority of Americans want more gun control. It makes sense. It is time.[Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Speech to Citizens Crime Comission, March 6, 1997]
Fact: You're a liberal.
More facts. Rudy left office having increased spending by 18.7% from 1995-2000, leaving behind a $2-billion deficit, a $42-billion debt, almost doubling contractual expenses from $3-bil to $5.8-bil, increasing city employees by 20K --- adding 15,000 new teachers and 2,000 new political positions. Giuliani had no success in shrinking the size and scope of the NYCity government. When Rudy left office NYCity still had a city-income tax, along with some of the highest property taxes and utility rates in the entire nation.
No thanks.
That's the kind of talk that got us Clinton.
I posted to Spiff. Got it from his post at #66. I was making a joke. But you're right, I don't read the Nation.
Neither do I. It's a liberal mouthpiece.
I read through most of those articles, particularly the ones from The Nation. It appears, of course, that liberal rag doesn't like him at all.
Most of the arguments against Rudy from The Nation magazine could very well come from many FReepers who allege themselves to be "true conservatives". None of the articles had any glowing praise for Rudy, and one cited "juicy quotes" from a piece of trash book written by some knuckledraggin' lunatic liberal digging through Rudy's dumpster.
"Rudy is banking on his leadership during 9/11 will get him the nomination."
Were it not for 9/11, no one would seriously consider him."
Guiliani became a hero to me pre 9/11 when, as mayor, he alone refused to meet with the archterrorist Yassir Arafat when Arafat visited the U.S. Guiliani said he refused to meet with Arafat because he's a terrorist, while the rest of the New York and U.S. establishment were hosting and fawning over Arafat. That, too, was leadership to be admired.
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