Posted on 08/21/2006 5:51:49 PM PDT by Bob J
In earlier news it was reported that a Baptist Sunday school teacher of 54 years was let go from her position because "My belief is that the qualifications for both men and women teaching spiritual matters in a church setting end at the church door, period," the Pastor was quoted as saying.
Apparently in a letter sent to the teacher earlier in the month they qouted from First Timothy Two, 11-14 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."
This news was posted on FR here and here.
It's an interesting topic considering the current discussions regarding Sharia law and the treatment of women in Islam. Some FReepers were shocked and others appeared to support the policy based on scripture interpretation.
What is your opinion?
If ladies were not allowed to teach in a church..... the church would close very soon because they compromise the majority of teachers in churches.
Same here! Doesn't bother me either but I have a hunch on this thread we may be in the minority! :)
LOL!!! That's funny -- I don't care for the canine style either!
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain A Public Domain Bible KJV at Zondervan Zondervan
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
As an aside, a lawyer could have a field day with the ultimate "legal/moral" force and effect of that one in a given context, even if one were a believer. We don't find the words, "and it was written by God, himself, each and every word, and each and every sentence containing such words, stands on its own, as an absolute commandment, for ever, and ever, no matter the context, or how the culture of "man" may "evolve."
I take it you don't agree that while we still rely on women more than men to instruct in secondary schools, in the secular realm, women are unfit to instruct on sacred matters.
Quoth Judges 4-4 and 4-5...
" Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
And she sat under the palm-tree of Deborah between Ramah and Beth-el in the hill-country of Ephraim; and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment."
If it's not important enough to you to quote, it's not important to me.
Yes. "Inspiration" has meant many things to many people, and thus all the disagreements over interpretation.
God bless you, ping jockey. But, doesn't this sound familiar:
2Ch 30:17 For there were many in the assembly who had not consecrated themselves. Therefore the Levites had to slaughter the Passover lamb for everyone who was not clean, to consecrate it to the LORD.
2Ch 30:18 For a majority of the people, many of them from Ephraim, Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet they ate the Passover otherwise than as prescribed. For Hezekiah had prayed for them, saying, "May the good LORD pardon everyone
2Ch 30:19 who sets his heart to seek God, the LORD, the God of his fathers, even though not according to the sanctuary's rules of cleanness."
2Ch 30:20 And the LORD heard Hezekiah and healed the people.
2Ch 30:21 And the people of Israel who were present at Jerusalem kept the Feast of Unleavened Bread seven days with great gladness, and the Levites and the priests praised the LORD day by day, singing with all their might to the LORD.
2Ch 30:22 And Hezekiah spoke encouragingly to all the Levites who showed good skill in the service of the LORD. So they ate the food of the festival for seven days, sacrificing peace offerings and giving thanks to the LORD, the God of their fathers.
2Ch 30:23 Then the whole assembly agreed together to keep the feast for another seven days. So they kept it for another seven days with gladness.
When I was in the military, women who were in the military had to work right up to the delivery day or when the water broke or something like that.
Of course they were also given the easier jobs and were given so many months off to nurse or whatever and then it was back to work. Babies can suck on bottles just as well as they can breast nipples, and man can change diapers just as well.
I can provide some detailed notes regarding the topic, but a deeper issue may be involved here.
This is an issue of legitimate authority within the local church and frequently the pastor-teacher has the authority and responsibility to enforce.
If that authority is being usurped or discussed behind his back, then the issue is gossip and those women who don't like being corrected are merely making their situation more miserable as gossips.
The instances you reference document that women do not have the gift of pastor-teacher, but one will have to study Greek to comprehend those meanings. If the student disobeys their pastor-teacher, then that issue has priority to resolve before furthering the discussion.
Could very well be...But that's not the issue is it...
You said you don't mind if a woman is a Pastor as long as she follows the bible...But the bible says she can't be a Pastor...
No
You would be correct! I have been sitting reading some of the replies and feel like I am being transported back in time where women were subservent to men in a lot of occupations. Find this hard to believe it has happened in real time.
Left a thread earlier tonight where men don't believe in birth control and now this! Sitting here shaking head!
Is this an overt invitation for another TULIP dogpile?
1. Women, don't interrupt the service calling to hubby over on the men's side to explain what's being said. Disruptive.
2. In Christ, there's neither Jew nor Greek; male nor female . . .
3. Kathryn Kuhlman did a great job but always felt it was a man's role except that no men of sufficient dedication and sacrifice would step up to the plate so God used a woman.
4. Women were used of God as leaders throughout the Old Testament and in spots in the New Testament.
5. I think it takes a rare woman to do it properly and under the leadership and anointing of Holy Spirit.
6. I think Joyce Meyers does a great job. Men humble enough to listen to her with attentive, God-submitted hearts will learn many things edifying them Biblically and buliding up their relationship with God and others in Spirit-led ways.
7. Some women ought not lead a pack of dogs as some men ought not be in charge of a pack of rabid rats. Arrogance, pride, insecurity, grandstanding etc. are poor reasons for anyone to be leading any other humans. Yet we often find such in the church on the men's side and too often with pontificating women, too.
8. I'm happy to listen to anyone who can strengthen my hand in The Lord.
9. Men are anemic spiritually. Let them take responsibility. Let them sacrificie the hours in prayer and study. Let them step up to the plate. Counter the feminization of American Churches with true manly spiritual leadership with the sensitivity of Jesus and the masculinity and power of Jesus and His Spirit all at the same time.
10. Women can be great at teaching content and relating it to personal life experiences in humble ways. Some rare men can. Too many men tend to be far too autoritarian instead of anointed and authoritative. Some women tend to be too brazenly bossy, haughty and . . . wellllll with a chip on their shoulders, too--not unlike Windy McKinney. But there's more than an abundance of men the same way. I think the Kingdom is poorly served by either sex in such attitudes and spirits.
11. God can use donkeys and has. God has used many heathen to teach me true spiritual truths through vivid object lessons. I suppose, because spiritual people were not available or maybe I was hard hearing at that time.
12. I'm eager to learn anything from someone who's walking consistently closer to God than I am in any area.
Scripture makes it clear that men are to be the primary teachers in the church. I don't know why it is that way except it must have something to do with the men being the leaders Scripturally.
But, you can take it too far.
I do not think there is anything unbiblical with a woman teaching Sunday School unless it is an all-adult male class or something.
I thought the era of the male chauvenist had gone by but I will admit I WAS WRONG!
Some of the biggest gossips I know are men not to mention that because a man is a minister doesn't make him a good minister or a moral person. We have had ministers arrested for taking money from their churches, pedofiles, snake oil salesmen that will get people to give up their life savings for the church that then goes away, and the list goes on around here. A good opportunity for shysters in this area since this County has over 200 churches some of which come and go like the wind.
You don't have adult Sunday School?
How odd.
Very well said and I agree with your reasoned comments.
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