MODERN MANNERS (Offering a Woman a Seat Is 'Creepy,' According to GQ)

New York Post ^ | August 18, 2006 | Liz Smith

[nickcarraway]

'WOMEN ARE equals now. They can fend for themselves. To offer a perfectly healthy woman a seat simply because she is a woman, however well-intentioned, is creepy. At best, she'll think you're from another country; at worst she'll feel old, or overweight enough to be perceived as pregnant."

And that is a lesson in modern manners, according to the new issue of GQ (with Clive Owen on the cover). Glenn O'Brien and other GQ scribes weigh in on e-mails, cellphones, gym etiquette, dressing for travel, how to handle chatty seatmates, sleeping with your friend's ex, online dating, wedding gifts and how to treat gay people: "Gay people don't want to freshen up the world, they just want to be a part of it." (So don't ask for makeovers and fashion tips.)

Oh, but you certainly should open doors for women: "Why? To be nice, you mannerless ape!"

[HitmanLV]

SOME even feel threatened by it,(such as holding a door for them) and will launch into a preprogrammed femilezi rant about how you have offended them , and think they are unable to open the door themselves.

I hold doors for anyone, and have all my adult life, and never once encountered a poor response. I lived in nyc also. I really have to wonder about the guys who get this response (maybe they did something obnoxious, unintentionally) and the ultra sensitive women (who I have to confess, I have never had one reacted negatively to holding a door or offering a seat on a train).

[Young Scholar]

Remember, as the wise Marcus Aurellius said, "The best revenge is to not do as they do".

Marcus Aurelius couldn't have said that: it's impossible to split an infinitive in Latin. :-)

[HitmanLV]

too bad there wasn't a FR around in my earlier days. I messed up more than my share of relationships with the female of the species because I did not understand the above, at least in broad terms.

Just remember, a woman appreciates a gentleman. That is, a gentle man. But to be truly gentle, a man has to credibly be more coarse or rough. If a woman doesn't believe there is a more coarse side to a man, she will never really appreciate the gentleness.

A wise man once said, a man wants a good girl who will be bad for him, and a woman wants a bad boy who will be good for her. :-)

[HitmanLV]

Of course this was in downtown NYC. Just goes to show that where you are counts in whether good manners are appreciated.

NYUseless? That library on Laguardia & Washington Square Park South is an eyesore!

[HitmanLV]

From some of the comments I've read on this thread, I wonder where on earth these people live?

Never had a problem with it, either.

[HitmanLV]

...or as another Man's mangazine has quoted, "No matter how hot a woman is there is some man somewhere, tired of her $#!+"

The variation I grew up with was "No matter how hot a woman is, there is a man somewhere who is tired of $#!+ing her." :-)

[dc27]

I am always amazed when I see guys sitting in the car while the lady pumps the gas.

[LukeL]

I'll continue to hold doors open for women, be extra polite around them, avoid swearing etc. etc. I do not know of any woman who would find any of the above creepy at all.

[HitmanLV]

Too many American men go after the women whose good looks are skin deep. Time and toil will take the youthful good looks from anyone in time. But inner beauty lasts.

I see what you are saying, but our culture has a terrible bias on this issue. This is one of the final frontiers of bigotry that few on God's green earth have a problem with - lib, conservative, whatever. Too many folks think that very goodlooking women don't offer much more beyond their looks. Many, many very goodlooking women are appealing on the outside and on the inside. It's not an either-or dynamic.

I know that's not what you said, but it reminded me of a terrible, pervasive bias in our culture that crosses political lines. Lots and lots of people think less of very goodlooking women. Stinks!

[HitmanLV]

It's even a phenomenon on FR. I know a young, very good looking Freeper woman who gets criticism from male and female freepers regarding this issue, sadly.

[California Patriot]

I'm as red-blooded as the next guy, but GQ is no better than Playboy. Playboy appeals to lust for women. GQ appeals to lust for material things and coolness.
Neither have anything at all to do with "man at his best."

[California Patriot]

Very good-looking women can have more to offer than their looks.

The problem is not that these women are idiots or have nothing to offer, but that they tend to have an entitlement mentality, as sure as a low-IQ Rat voter does -- and with less excuse. These women tend to live in a fantasy world where they really don't have to do anything, consider others' feelings, and so on ... really don't have to grow up. Some do, of course, but only because they have extraordinary character, had an exceptionally good upbringing, or were hit upside the head early in life and learned that they have to act like adults.

[Vietnam Vet From New Mexico]

The proper response to a woman who is upset because you opened a door for her is:

My mother taught me to open doors for ladies, and I mistook you for one.

[HitmanLV]

These women tend to live in a fantasy world where they really don't have to do anything, consider others' feelings, and so on ... really don't have to grow up.

In some cases, yes. But not in most cases. Very goodlooking women are still just women - they may have some things easier but many have a lot of other things harder. I always considered very stunning looks and a fit, exquisite feminine body as almost a birth defect.

[SledgeCS]

No matter what the femenists and metro-sexuals say, I will will still open a door or give up a seat to a lady.

But of course I will still respond the same way as I do when scolded for do so.

When opening a door or holding it open and a feminist scolds me, I respond "I am Sorry SIR, I thought you were a lady" and shut the door. When offering my seat to a female and get scolded, I respond "Sorry SIR, I was trying to offer you this seat as I thought you were a lady, but obviously I was wrong. I do apologize" And then I plog my fat butt back in the seat, but I do offer it to the next female/lady that boards.

My question is this: I will continue to open doors, offer seats, assist in packages, etc, etc... to ladies that appreciate it, BUT can the ones of the female gender that dont want that courtesy just wear a button that states "I hate men and am using a hand woven rope tampon"???

I am getting old and need the help on this...

[California Patriot]

Those "harder" things would be much easier if they lost their arrogance and coldness. Admittedly, these characteristics may not reflect what's truly in their hearts most of the time. They may essentially be a protective shell. But that's an excuse for almost anything, isn't it?

[KellyAdmirer]

That's funny that you nailed it. It is pretty ugly, isn't it? For such a huge monstrosity, not a whole lot of useful books in it, either.

[DakotaGator]

...plus a Steinbeck truism of human nature: that sometimes you're the one doing the person a favor when you accept a favor...

Quite right. Reciprocated graciousness is a delight for all!

[HitmanLV]

Those "harder" things would be much easier if they lost their arrogance and coldness.

I dunno, I think a lot of it has nothing at all to do with arrogance or coldness (and I think that's overstated in any case).

It's not uncommon for folks to impute stupidity to very goodlooking, fit women, for example. What's the logical nexus between very good looks and stupidity? Nothing at all.

It's not uncommon for folks to impute promiscuity or sluttiness to to very goodlooking, fit women, for example. What's the logical nexus between very good looks and promiscuity? Beyond more opportunity, nothing much at all

I could go on. I don't think very goodlooking women behave in that way much at all. Some do, but most don't.

[HitmanLV]

Ugly, ugly building. But I liked the basement study center. More casual and relaxed. I took 4 classes at NYU one summer - lots of fun! I also grew up and lived just down the street!