Is a Nissan-Renault plan good for GM?

MSNBC ^ | July 7, 2006 | Roland Jones

[JamesP81]

General Motors’ board of directors has voted to start exploratory discussions with Nissan and Renault on a potential business alliance — a plan first proposed one week ago by Kirk Kerkorian, GM’s largest shareholder. But would a deal with the automakers help boost GM’s flagging fortunes?

[oldtimer2]

One solution would be to hire Roger Pensky to run GM He is probably the best manager in U.S. for automotive sector. He bought GM's diesel and has made a success out of it.

[Hildy]

Sounds like a recipe for disaster..now, if it were the other way around..maybe.

[webstersII]

"I'd be really incensed if GM started selling their cheaply constructed cars with a Nissan tag on them."

The Japanese would NEVER go for that. They really do believe in the zero defect ideals and they would never take the chance of losing face in such a way.

[JamesP81]

It might be a plan to shed itself of the unions and the "welfare state" they created for themselves. You never know --

I hope this is what would happen. If GM could close its detroit plants and get shed of the union it could then rebuild itself around fewer brands. They'd have more money to put into manufacturing more mechanically robust vehicles that really are on a par with imports on reliability.

Then again, I don't know that this is what would happen. Like I said, I really Altimas and Maximas and I'd like to buy one in the next year, but if it's just an Impala with a Nissan sticker on it, I'm not interested.

OTOH, it could go the other way, which would be good for GM.

[MatD]

Agreed. My car lineage is: a Chevy Beretta, then a Nissan Sentra, 2 Maximas, a 300ZX Twin Turbo (still have) and now a Murano. As you can see, the Beretta tought me a very important lesson.

[JamesP81]

Aw, c'mon! Some of GM's cars have been up at number two behind Toyota in the J.D. Power surveys. Catch up with things.

I don't necessarily follow JD Power. Granted, the new crop of GM vehicles are quite a bit better than they have been recently. However, for long-term reliability nothing beats Nissan, Toyota, and Honda. Maybe reliability isn't the number one issue for you. If that's the case, a GM vehicle might be a better choice for you. However, I cannot afford to have even the occassional 2000 dollar car repair bill, not on the money I make.

There are a few American autos I would strongly consider purchasing, however there are only a few. I'd buy a newer Impala or Grand Prix if I had the money, which I don't. Pontiac's 3.8L V6 is a solid engine with good reliability. I know a guy who has a Bonneville with this engine and it gives no problems.

However, I'm in the market for a more sporty vehicle, and one I can afford. GM doesn't make Firebirds or Camaros anymore, and I can't afford a Corvette. Nissan doesn't make a mid-range sports car like GM used to. With Nissan it's either a 4-door Sedan (Altima or Maxima) or a 350Z which I also can't afford. The Mitsubishi Eclipse is without a doubt the most fun car to drive I've ever sat behind, but it's reliability is even worse than GM by a long shot (not surprising; it's a typical Chrysler product. Some Eclipses also have this tendency to throw their timing chains which tends to total the vehicle when it happens). Basically, if I want a sporty, fun to drive car for that I can afford that won't fall apart on me at 90,000 miles my only real option is a Toyota Celica, which isn't made any more.

Now, I guess I'm being selfish but the idea of a new GM sports car that I could afford with a far more reliable Nissan engine in it is a good thought that I'd like to see happen.

[JamesP81]

I am not sure either, but as I said in another thread a 350Z with an LS2 engine would be a world beater.

Yeah, that would be pretty awesome, IMO.

[JamesP81]

I think GM should retain Pontiac as a performance line. Pontiac is the only GM line I'd likely purchase a vehicle from anyway. And since Nissan's are mostly performance vehicles already, Pontiacs using Nissan engines would be a natural fit.

[1rudeboy]

Honda has built engines for Saturn since the 2004 model year.

[JamesP81]

I don't want to buy a Nissan made in Mexico.

Sentras are already made in Mexico, and have been for a while. And mine is still running strong at 143,000 miles.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

They're still ugly.

[nyconse]

So you won't give GM a chance hey? Well, my husband works for GM as do thousands of other Americans. It might interest you to know that all car companies are starting to get their parts from third world countries-thanks to the failure of our government to enforce fair trade policies. Personally, my loyalty is to my country and my fellow Americans-not a foreign car company subsidized by their government (illegal under WTO but when did rules apply to the Japanese)- a government that blocks all foreign competion I might add. There are many forms of treason you know.

[Hoboto]

GM won't survive until they stop making ugly, FWD cars. Period.

[JamesP81]

It might be back to the VW's for me.

VW's, and frankly, European cars in general, are even worse on reliability than GM and even Chrysler. BMW and Mercedes might a hot looking car, but mechanically they are borderline garbage. If you're wanting a stylish Euro-type luxury ride get a Lexus (Toyota), and Infiniti (Nissan) or an Acura (Honda). You get the luxury ride and the reliability.

[mass55th]

Thanks for the info.

[TheOracleAtLilac]

One solution would be to hire Roger Pensky to run GM

That's 1 solution.

At a minimum, fire Wagoner & his like-minded bootlickers.

[N. Theknow]

VW got quality problems?

Is that also true of their TDI Passat?

[-YYZ-]

Are you comparing apples and oranges? What were the GM cars that you had as rentals, as compared to the small Japanese cars you've driven. You can hardly compare a Grand Am or G6, or even a Malibu, with a Civic or Corolla - they're in different categories.

Having said that, I am also unimpressed with those small Japanese cars. I find their engines buzzy, the cars noisy overall (engine and road noise), and the level of performance, ride and handling generally kind of lacking. But that is true in that class of (subcompact - compact) across the board with the exception of a few pricey exceptions. I had a Toyota Rav4 rental last year and was surprised to find it just as buzzy and gutless as my Mom's Hyundai Elantra, maybe more so, and the Elantra's price undercuts the Japanese by a good bit. The Japanese small cars do have a small advantage in fit and finish and tactile refinement (and possibly long term reliability and durability, but that's not certain) over the competition, but the difference today between a Civic or Corolla and something like a Chevy Cobalt or Dodge Neon is not all that great (they're all little crap boxes, in my opinion).

I sometimes find myself wishing that someone would put a somewhat larger, more refined engine and transmission in this class of car, at a reasonable price.

[TheOracleAtLilac]

why don't you Google "Pontiac Solstice"

[Hoboto]

VW's, and frankly, European cars in general, are even worse on reliability than GM and even Chrysler. BMW and Mercedes might a hot looking car, but mechanically they are borderline garbage.

Not true. Rather it's the Electronics that are garbage, not the mechanics. The Germans have acknowledged that their Electronics are not up to par with the Japanese. That part is true.

However mechanically, BMW has the best inline 6-cylinder in the world. And Mercedes builds the best diesel.

FWIW....My BMW '85 535i (E28) is still going strong at 199,000 miles. It runs better than my '97 Ford Ranger with 147,000.