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Liberal Christianity is paying for its sins
LA Times ^ | 7/9/06 | Charlotte Allen

Posted on 07/09/2006 4:41:38 AM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom

The accelerating fragmentation of the strife-torn Episcopal Church USA, in which several parishes and even a few dioceses are opting out of the church, isn't simply about gay bishops, the blessing of same-sex unions or the election of a woman as presiding bishop. It also is about the meltdown of liberal Christianity.

Embraced by the leadership of all the mainline Protestant denominations, as well as large segments of American Catholicism, liberal Christianity has been hailed by its boosters for 40 years as the future of the Christian church.

Instead, as all but a few die-hards now admit, all the mainline churches and movements within churches that have blurred doctrine and softened moral precepts are demographically declining and, in the case of the Episcopal Church, disintegrating.

It is not entirely coincidental that at about the same time that Episcopalians, at their general convention in Columbus, Ohio, were thumbing their noses at a directive from the worldwide Anglican Communion that they "repent" of confirming the openly gay Bishop V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire three years ago, the Presbyterian Church USA, at its general assembly in Birmingham, Ala., was turning itself into the laughingstock of the blogosphere by tacitly approving alternative designations for the supposedly sexist Christian Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Among the suggested names were "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer and Friend." Moved by the spirit of the Presbyterian revisionists, Beliefnet blogger Rod Dreher held a "Name That Trinity" contest. Entries included "Rock, Scissors and Paper" and "Larry, Curly and Moe."

Following the Episcopalian lead, the Presbyterians also voted to give local congregations the freedom to ordain openly cohabiting gay and lesbian ministers and endorsed the legalization of medical marijuana.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anglicancommunion; apostasy; apostates; ecusa; episcopalchurch; falseshepards; gays; godless; heresy; heretics; homosexualagenda; liberalism; members; money; religiousleft; sin
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To: Bryan24

Seems like you are following dogma, not simply reading scipture and taking it as it is, not with a political dogma attached to it.

Not very "sala scriptura" of you.


181 posted on 07/10/2006 1:49:55 PM PDT by Notwithstanding (I love my German shepherd - Benedict XVI reigns!)
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To: Bryan24

Seems like you are following dogma, not simply reading scipture and taking it as it is, not with a political dogma attached to it.

Not very "sola scriptura" of you.


182 posted on 07/10/2006 1:50:11 PM PDT by Notwithstanding (I love my German shepherd - Benedict XVI reigns!)
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To: Bryan24
1Cr 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

1Cr 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup.

1Cr 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.


If in John 6:53-57 (or John 6:41-71), where Jesus

repeatedly tells his followers to "eat my flesh" and

"drink my blood", were merely symbolic, as you claim....

Why in your referenced scripture is St. Paul teaching

that one must not be "unworthy"?

You're a "once saved, always saved" believer, and you

claim that communion is just "bread and juice"...so,

How can one be "unworthy" when partaking of communion

if it's merely symbolism?

And "eateth and drinketh damnation to himself"

Eternal damnation for being "unworthy" to take partake

of "bread and juice"?
183 posted on 07/10/2006 1:50:37 PM PDT by dollars_for_dogma
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To: Bryan24

You can ignore the emphatic way that Jesus repeated the hard teaching that many of his followers were rejecting: the fact that they had to eat his flesh and drink his blood.

How sad that you would twist the actual words of Jesus Himself so that you could feel better about rejecting the Church Christ founded upon Peter.


184 posted on 07/10/2006 1:53:55 PM PDT by Notwithstanding (I love my German shepherd - Benedict XVI reigns!)
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To: Bryan24
One of the fundamental canons in identifying figurative language is this. Normally, a word should be viewed as literal, unless other considerations make it impossible to interpret the term in that light.

Interpretation of the above:

The words of the bible "should be viewed as literal,

unless we don't like that literal meaning.
185 posted on 07/10/2006 2:03:15 PM PDT by dollars_for_dogma
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To: Notwithstanding
Please read some acurate history of the Church.
The NT was not declared to be so until the 300s.
NO ONE disputes this historial fact.

Oi vey. Do you honestly not know the difference between having the NT in hand and having a formal list of the books that comprise it? That's like saying that until someone came up with an exhaustive list of Shakespeare's works, we didn't have Shakespeare. Are you honestly ignorant enough to believe that before the Councils of Laodicea, Hippo, and Carthage, the Church fathers were sitting around, twiddling their thumbs, without any Scriptures? Have you never actually read Polycarp, Irenaeus, Ignatius, Hippolytus, etc. and seen how often they quoted NT Scripture with the assumption that their audiences would accept their citations as having God's voice?

If you can't tell the difference between making a list of already authoritative books and giving authority to those books, then you really need to do some homework. I recommend Geisler and Nix's A General Introduction to the Bible for starters.

What planet are you from?

Vulcan, apparently.

186 posted on 07/10/2006 2:11:27 PM PDT by Buggman (L'chaim b'Yeshua HaMashiach!)
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To: Notwithstanding

Why would Christ found His church on Peter? That makes NO sense. (yes, I know all about "That art Peter, and on this rock I will build my church.") Peter denied the Lord.

Now, if you say Christ founded His church on "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God.", now that might make some sense.


187 posted on 07/10/2006 2:22:31 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right....)
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To: Notwithstanding
The Word of God does change - all yo have to do is go to a bibkle store and ten compare the text of the different versions.

HE might have something else to say about this statement:

Psalm 119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

I fully recognize that as satan attacked the Word made flesh he has attacked the written Word as well. Just stick with the Authorized Version, and leave the inventiveness of man to himself.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

188 posted on 07/10/2006 2:23:20 PM PDT by El Cid
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To: Notwithstanding

(The novel groups that have no core but the Bible)

Have you seen any of the novel groups embrace the Bible? What's killing them is how far their teaching is from the Bible. I'd say based on anecdotal evidence, the more people are familiar about what the Bible teaches, the more solid their faith is and they are less likely to fall for the fads of the day.


189 posted on 07/10/2006 2:23:27 PM PDT by winner3000
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Comment #190 Removed by Moderator

To: Glenmerle

(Jesus criticized the Pharisees in part for elevating tradition to the level of Scripture. And he taught others by saying, "It is written," not "We've done it this way for 500 years.")

I couldn't have said it better. Thank you.


191 posted on 07/10/2006 2:47:04 PM PDT by winner3000
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To: Birmingham Rain

Pssssst . . . Dreher was committing what some around here like to call a "joke." Further explanation provided if still needed.


192 posted on 07/10/2006 2:49:10 PM PDT by Xenalyte (Anything is possible when you don't understand how anything happens.)
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To: El Cid
Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD
than to put confidence in man.


Yet Bible Christianity, Sola Scriptura, is based on the

opposite....rather than trust to the Lord's Authority,

each man is confident that he is able to determine the

true meaning of the scriptures.
193 posted on 07/10/2006 2:51:20 PM PDT by dollars_for_dogma
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To: Oshkalaboomboom

I was an Elder in the PC USA. I left this whacked-out denomination in 1991 and have never regretted it. The Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) is a great Evangilical denomination.


194 posted on 07/10/2006 3:03:31 PM PDT by wjcsux (I would prefer to have the German army in front of me than the French army behind me- Gen. G. Patton)
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To: ma ja99
This is what you stated:

Until a Church absolutely condemns sinful behavior I have no respect for them or the leaders. You appear to be worshipping the Church instead of God.

You make a bigoted, anti-Catholic statement and, when called on it, you change the subject and claim victimhood.

The Church has always condemed homosexuality...you still have your Catechism, don't you?

Quoting #2357 from the Catechism... ..."Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as 'acts of grave depravity', tradition has always declared that 'homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered'. They are contrary to the natural law."

It doesn't get more clear than that, does it?


Our homosexual clergy are being exposed and ousted....the
Episcopals elect them as Bishops.

The bible churches have their share of sexual perverts, as well.

As does the public school...

and the military.....

Maybe, if you'd have stayed to fight and witness the shake-up, you wouldn't be so bitter and antagonistic.

Hope your new church is pure enough.
195 posted on 07/10/2006 3:14:50 PM PDT by dollars_for_dogma
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To: Oshkalaboomboom
Following the Episcopalian lead, the Presbyterians also voted to give local congregations the freedom to ordain openly cohabiting gay and lesbian ministers and endorsed the legalization of medical marijuana.

Why does the phrase "race to the bottom" keep intruding into my thoughts as I read this.

196 posted on 07/10/2006 3:22:29 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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Comment #197 Removed by Moderator

To: Oshkalaboomboom

I Timothy 4:1-2, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times Episcopalians, Presybterians, some Lutherans, definitely the Mormons and the JWs and especially the Muslims etc. etc. shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


198 posted on 07/10/2006 5:20:18 PM PDT by BigFinn
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To: Birmingham Rain
What a terrible disgrace. I hate that my eyes saw it to read it.

.Oh me too. How disgusting!

199 posted on 07/10/2006 5:23:18 PM PDT by ladyinred (The NYTimes, hang 'em high!)
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To: fish hawk

Looks like plagerism to me. You should write them a letter.


200 posted on 07/10/2006 5:24:36 PM PDT by I got the rope
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