Posted on 07/09/2006 4:41:38 AM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom
The accelerating fragmentation of the strife-torn Episcopal Church USA, in which several parishes and even a few dioceses are opting out of the church, isn't simply about gay bishops, the blessing of same-sex unions or the election of a woman as presiding bishop. It also is about the meltdown of liberal Christianity.
Embraced by the leadership of all the mainline Protestant denominations, as well as large segments of American Catholicism, liberal Christianity has been hailed by its boosters for 40 years as the future of the Christian church.
Instead, as all but a few die-hards now admit, all the mainline churches and movements within churches that have blurred doctrine and softened moral precepts are demographically declining and, in the case of the Episcopal Church, disintegrating.
It is not entirely coincidental that at about the same time that Episcopalians, at their general convention in Columbus, Ohio, were thumbing their noses at a directive from the worldwide Anglican Communion that they "repent" of confirming the openly gay Bishop V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire three years ago, the Presbyterian Church USA, at its general assembly in Birmingham, Ala., was turning itself into the laughingstock of the blogosphere by tacitly approving alternative designations for the supposedly sexist Christian Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Among the suggested names were "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer and Friend." Moved by the spirit of the Presbyterian revisionists, Beliefnet blogger Rod Dreher held a "Name That Trinity" contest. Entries included "Rock, Scissors and Paper" and "Larry, Curly and Moe."
Following the Episcopalian lead, the Presbyterians also voted to give local congregations the freedom to ordain openly cohabiting gay and lesbian ministers and endorsed the legalization of medical marijuana.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Thomas Jefferson did that once, and it seems like a lot of the "new and improved" translations are trying to. Which is why I have quite a collection of Bibles around the house.
Now if I could only learn Greek....
Liberalism of this nature will ALWAYS lead to destruction.
Liberal Christians are like Libertarian Godless Conservatives.
I saw the path that the liberal leadership was steering the ELCA onto and it is not the path that the Jesus Christ Almighty whom I was raised to believe in would have us trod.
As to the "moral clarity" of the Catholic Church that "notwithstanding" trumpets, if it makes him/her happy, then leave him/her be. We have a vicious enemy in Islam to deal with and bickering between us will just make it easier for the Islamonazis to defeat us all.
I believe that the Christian Church is undergoing a new revival. The liberal hi-jacking will result in their controling an empty shell. The true believers will group together, and no, I do not mean all return to "notwithstanding"'s church of "moral clarity", but to church's of like-minded believers who will raise up their churches as the empty shells taken by the liberals wither and fall.
Love that quote. The ELCA is no longer Christian, no longer Lutheran, and not really a "church". But it is in America, so I guess than can keep the name /sarcasm. On a side note, have you converted to the SOC yet or are you still attending?
WRT Purgatory, Jesus used the Septuagint version of OT Scripture and quoted from it extensively (portions of it were later rejected by Protestants however.) The Book of Maccabees in the Septuagint specifically mentions prayers for the dead. So does St. Paul. You don't need to pray for the dead if they are already in heaven. They have to be somewhere . . . therefore Purgatory. As C.S. Lewis said (the compromise view), if you get out, you can call it Purgatory. If you don't, you can call it Hell.
My Catholic pastor used to play "hide the ball" when it came to doctrine because he was an apparent heretic. He was especially silly when it came to hiding doctrine from persons converting to Catholicism. As one of the instructors for a very large class, I used to give the pastor fits because I whenever he would deviate from official doctrine (which is always rooted in scripture) I would cite and quote the doctrine and ask him if that was correct. He, of course, was forced to agree that it was correct. And so true doctrine was ultimately made known to those wishing to join our Church. They were free, then to, knowingly accept or reject it.
That is the beauty of the Catholic Church - our doctrine is clear and when it comes down to it, a pastor must repsect it when making a public statement - or risk serious consquences.
There are lots of nice books that will start you in Greek, I'm most familiar with the Classical ones because that's where I got started. But there are also primers for Koine Greek as well.
Just go ahead and leap in!
There is nothing in the scriptures that indicate Mary was sinless.
The scriptures tell us that all sin and fall short of the glory of God. That includes Mary.
What the Catholic church leaders say doesn't count, because they erred from the original teachings.
Best reason I can think of why EVERY Catholic (every Christian for that matter) should spend some time every week studying the Bible and the Catechism.
Unfortunately you can't always guarantee that your priest will be a straight-ahead orthodox man. But we are very, very lucky to have a fierce old Irish dreadnought for our pastor. He is an absolutely uncompromising preacher and teacher. Just yesterday he slammed "liberal Christianity" in no uncertain terms . . . didn't name any names, but the Episcopal church is on everybody's mind right now. I told him after Mass that I wanted to jump up on the pew and shout, "Listen to the man! DON'T DO IT!" (I used to be an Episcopalian but fled from the Wrath to Come.)
Odd that they would do that.
The early Church Fathers, some of whom knew the apostles personally, were absolutely certain of Mary's purity and sinlessness. They also made perfectly clear that this was a gift from God, not due to any merit on Mary's part, so that she would be a fit mother for God Himself.
Nowhere in the scriptures was Peter presented, represented or reffered to as the shepherd of the whole church.
The pope have often held themselves as infallible.
Pope Gregory VII (1073-85) :
"The pope cannot make a mistake."
Paschal II: (1099-1118)
"Whoever does not agree with the Apostolic See
is without doubt a heretic."
Pope Innocent IV (1243-54):
described himself as
"the bodily presence of Christ."
( presumably by a kind of
transubstantiation at his election)
Pope Boniface VIII (1294-1303) :
"Every human being must do
as the pope tells him."
Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903):
"We hold upon this earth
the place of God Almighty."
( Encyclical Letter, June 20, 1894 )
Peter didn't hold those positions. Paul surely didn't. But looking at those quotes, it sure seemed the popes view themselves as perfect, or as Pope Leo XIII says, they see themselves as 'God on Earth'.
The fact is that the New Testament was considered authoritative by orthodox Christians from the generation immediately following the apostles to the Council of Nicaea. Additionally, the key doctrines of the Christian faith, such as the divine and human nature of Jesus Christ, the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, the Substitutionary Atonement, et. al., were evident in the writings of the ante-Nicene fathers. Church councils tend to confirm what had been the predominant practice "in the field". For example, the Catholic Council of Trent affirmed many doctrines and practices that were prevalent in the medieval Catholic Church, adding its imprimatur to what had been the prevalent teaching for several centuries.
Well, since Christ quoted the Septuagint directly numerous times, that, as they say, is good enough for me!
I would buy a side-by-side New Testament first. Most of us are pretty conversant with the text already.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.