Posted on 06/22/2006 8:43:39 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
Editor's note: On the evening of July 17, 1996, at 8:19 p.m., TWA Flight 800, a Boeing 747, took off from Kennedy Airport, bound for Paris. At 8:31 p.m., over 730 people watched Flight 800 explode, killing all 230 of the people aboard.
Not long afterwards, millions of Americans watched their televisions in fascinated horror as search and rescue crews looked for survivors among the flaming debris. Only dead bodies were recovered.
Flight 800 is mostly an ugly memory for people these days. The U.S. government issued an explanation that a fuel tank had somehow exploded. Yet, they flatly denied any evidence existed of foul play, including the possibility that Flight 800 had been blown out of the air by a missile.
All but a few journalists accepted the government's version of events. Few bothered to investigate the numerous eyewitnesses, the radar records and the physical evidence that all suggested a strikingly different explanation of Flight 800's untimely demise. And those few who did question the government's version were made to look like fools or, worse, thrown in jail and prosecuted as criminals for meddling in an official investigation.
What really happened to Flight 800? ....
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
A layman is capable of interpreting aircraft accident damage? Funny that the experts all disagree with your opinion. Frankly, I'll take the opinions of Boeing engineers over the opinions of a layman.
When a missile warhead explodes, it sends out thousands of warhead fragments toward its target leaving a huge area peppered with easily identifiable holes. Not a single bit of evidence was found of any warhead fragments (or anything from the outside) hitting the aircraft. Yet, 0ver 95% of the aircraft was recovered and of the pieces missing, none were large enough to account for the effects of an exploding missile warhead.
What evidence is there that any debris did?
Yet a team of highly trained engineers using data provided by Boeing, and some of the most complex computer simulation programs in the world proved it could.
And it would appear there are two EOD experts on this thread who disagree with each other. Disagreements between experts about a particular topic are not uncommon. But I have learned that you are better off trusting the opinions of the experts who actually handled and analyzed the evidence, then the words of someone who most likely hasn't even read the official accident report.
I understand that. But when you pose a question like "the clearest reading is that "blasted through the right side" means that the missile come in from the lower left side" you are posing a question that is based on an assumption that there was a missile. That is a loaded question. Kind of like asking someone if their marriage was better before or after they stopped beating their wife. How do you answer if you never beat your wife to begin with.
A flight engineer cannot drain all the fuel from any tank. I am a rated flight engineer on the 727 which has a fuel system similar in most respects to that on early 747's. Aircraft fuel tanks contain a certain amount of residual fuel (50 to 100 gallons in a tank like the CWT on a 747) even when they read empty. To completely drain a tank requires a fuel technician to drain it from the outside, and even then, a small amount of fuel remains that cannot be removed without someone actually entering the tank. And unless you steam clean the inside of an empty fuel tank, it will contain fuel vapors. Especially if it still contains an amount fuel.
The actual altitude is obviously classified. That is why I won't ever state a specific number. But you can assume that I wouldn't be adamantly arguing against a manpad if I knew one could actually reach 13,700 feet.
"However, I want to determine how long TWA 800 was at 13,700 feet prior to the giant fireball."
At the time of the initial event in the TWA 800 sequence the aircraft was in a climb through 13,700 for 15,000 feet. But the giant fireball actually happened almost a minute later when the aircraft was in a descent.
Um hmm. And how close was the nearest Naval vessel, and what type was it?
So much for that source. Antiaircraft missiles do not have "round pellets" in their warheads. Their warheads are scored metal casings that do not create "round pellets" when they explode.
You need to visit this site, and read what they have to say. Here's one excerpt..."Caltech's studies support the NTSB findings of probable cause."
Have you read the autopsy results?
That is why I am trying to buy me a Cessna 152, I don't plan to ever drive anywhere again.
Well, this ought to be good. Let's get this one out of the way early on...Have you actually read the whole NTSB report, including the addendums and appendixes?
Who is the other EOD guy?
Oh. I didn't know that. Sorry. Do you have a link that might provide some background on what he's talking about?
I know from past experience corresponding with him, that GarySpFc has considerable EOD experience.
PS: After several years of this, I have concluded it is much more fun putting the bombs in, than it is trying to take them out.
http://flight800.org/FIRO_pet_attach.pdf
A Brief Summary of a Declassified FBI Report
Subject: The analysis of evidence with possible high energy characteristics at the Brookhaven National Laboratory
Tom Stalcup, Feb. 20, 2002 A recently declassified FBI report presents the results of an analysis of TWA Flight 800 debris “that exhibited possible high energy characteristics” and other items of “unknown origin.”[1]
The FBI and NTSB contracted scientists from the Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL) to analyze these items, but restricted the scientists from sharing their findings with individuals outside the official investigation. The parties to the investigation (e.g. Boeing and TWA) did not participate in this activity.
Some of the items tested are listed below: Note: All quotations that follow have been taken from the aforementioned report[1] unless cited otherwise.
1. One of 20 similar objects of “unknown origin” approximately 0.2 inches in diameter found during victim autopsy examinations.
2. A piece of titanium alloy consistent with jet engine parts that contained “spike fractures” and “melting.”
3. Part of the left side of the aircraft that contained a penetration apparently “directed into the fuselage.”
The FBI report is a summary of the BNL activities and is apparently missing some pages and attachments.
Its “Executive Summary” seems to conflict with the findings presented in the body of the report.
The summary reads “no material compositions were found to indicate the presence of non-TWA Flight 800 or weapons related materials,” but item 1 (listed above) was inconsistent with aircraft wreckage.
[1] These pellet-like objects were in fact tested “because of their dissimilarity in appearance with TWA 800 debris.”
After numerous examinations, the report classified their origin as “unknown.”
When polished, the objects of unknown origin became “orange-colored and transparent.” They were non-conductive, and contained Zirconium, Barium, and Cerium within a multi-phase Aluminum-Titanium “matrix.” The significant quantity of Zirconium and the presence of Barium is indicative of an incendiary device[3, 4] and the matrix structure of these object is consistent with pellets used in anti-aircraft missiles1.
Similar pellets were apparently recovered from the bodies 1National Defense Magazine stated that “pellets embedded in a titanium matrix”[2] are used in anti-aircraft missile warheads.
- 4 - of victims of a recent missile engagement of a civilian airliner.2 Two days after the BNL report was submitted to the FBI leadership, then FBI Assistant Director James Kallstrom sent a letter to the NTSB requesting that the discussion of “Missile/Warhead Impact/Bombs/Explosives”[7] be banned from the NTSB public hearing on the crash, scheduled to be held the following week.
The NTSB complied with the request and the FBI classified the BNL report as “secret.” Although FBI investigators suspected “that a missile might have been used against flight 800,”[6] there is no indication that the any items discussed in the BNL report were ever analyzed by warhead experts.
On the contrary, the report mentioned having “little forensic documentation or guidance on large-body aircraft missile engagements.”
The characteristics of the items discussed in the BNL report are consistent with a missile engagement. But by not supplying proper guidance, classifying the report as secret, and influencing the agenda of a public hearing, the FBI leadership reduced the likelihood of this evidence ever becoming proof.
References: 1. FBI, TWA Flight 800 Brookhaven National Laboratory Examinations.
Declassified FBI Report, 1997. 2. Ezell, V.H., Experts Question Lethality of OICW Warhead. National Defense
Magazine, .
3. Durgapal, V.C., A.S. Dixit, and R.G. Sarawadekar, Study of zirconium-potassium perchlorate pyrotechnic system. Proceedings of the International Pyrotechnics Seminars, 1988. 13.
4. Taylor, F.R. and L.R. Lopez, Development of a reliable, miniature delay system using zirconium / nickel alloys - potassium perchlorate - barium chromate. Proceedings of the International Pyrotechnics Seminars, 1991. 16.
5. Pravda, UKRAINE DENIES MISSILE HITTING RUSSIAN LINER. "UNCONVINCING," SAYS AIR FORCE MARSHAL. Oct. 9, 2001, Pravda.ru, 2001. 6. Mayer, D., Witness Group Study Report. NTSB Public Docket, 2000.
7. Kallstrom, J., Dec. 3, 1997 Letter to NTSB Chairman Jim Hall Regarding Objections to Hearing Items. NTSB Docket, 1997.
8. Bott, R., TWA Flight 800 Missile Impact Analysis. NTSB Public Docket, 1997.
2 In the recent missile engagement of a Sibir Airlines aircraft over the Black Sea, “metal articles [were] found in several bodies [that] closely resembled in shape and weight pellets inside S 200 missiles.”[5]
- 5 -
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